Tikka Tip of the Day….Ejector Roll Pin

[med358-boise]

Looked at the video. Something seems inherently flawed to me and also somewhat irrelevant. As soon as the ejector is re-installed the case is pushed forward and jammed against the back of extractor hook and the "system" has just been altered. Consider the video is referencing adjustments as little a 1/2 of 1 thousandth, I would suspect that there is well over 1/1000 of movement when the case is pushed forward by the ejector.

The relevance question is driven by...for accuracy most shooters are looking for a seating depth node and the starting point is generally jam (which is just slightly into the lands and is also somewhat neck tension dependent) minus 15-20 thousandths and then they load multiple seating depths in increments of say 3/4 thousandths some others use as much 5 to 10/thousandths. So given the starting point of jam minus 15-20 thousandths it would seem irrelevant of whether I know the contact point of the lands is exactly 2.2 vs 2.201 vs 2.202 vs 2.203 because what I care about is the base to ogive measurement for the load that is most accurate when the rifle is in the configuration when I actually shoot it not whether that load is 26 vs 29/1000 off the lands. if accuracy degrades then I evaluate everything including if I need to reduce seating depth.

What am I missing here?

 

[quandary]

Unless you make a zero headspace case from fired brass the Hornady tool is actually giving you shoulder to ogive not base to ogive. It's also not as repetable as other methods, better than nothing though!!

That makes sense except that in the video Cortina is sizing the brass before he seats his test bullets. The other note is that as Cortina says its a starting point in any event so meticulous accuracy isn't all that important.

nvm; I think I see what you are saying. In any event the Hornady tool pushes the case shoulder to the chamber shoulder. Assuming I size at a .0015 to .002 bump I think that means my base to ogive is only off (short) .0015 to .002

 

[bigngreen]

That makes sense except that in the video Cortina is sizing the brass before he seats his test bullets. The other note is that as Cortina says its a starting point in any event so meticulous accuracy isn't all that important.

Personally I would never do it that way, ya he's creating a starting point but has no idea what that is in regards to the actual position of the throat vs ogive, since he's starting jambed it's base to give even with a sized case.
The Wheeler method is actually measuring where things are at for the base line, then you can reference back to find actual throat movement and or seating movement based on reality.

 

[quandary]

With the Hornady OAL gauge you end up pushing the bullet into the lands 0.005" to 0.020".

I think that the Cortina method would jam the bullet into the throat more than my very gentle tapping. Particularly when you consider the torques of the bolt and a waxed bullet versus an unwaxed bullet with very gentle finger tapping.

 

[Taylorbok]

Personally I would never do it that way, ya he's creating a starting point but has no idea what that is in regards to the actual position of the throat vs ogive, since he's starting jambed it's base to give even with a sized case.
The Wheeler method is actually measuring where things are at for the base line, then you can reference back to find actual throat movement and or seating movement based on reality.

Throat movement only matters if you are chasing the lands which IME is useless. Nor does seating depth make a difference on group size, most everyone that thinks it does is fooled by small sample size.

 

[bigngreen]

Throat movement only matters if you are chasing the lands which IME is useless. Nor does seating depth make a difference on group size, most everyone that thinks it does is fooled by small sample size.

Guess it depends on your goals. I can watch groups change every .001 at 1000 uards with my 6 dasher so on that gun it's relevant. One a 30-30 for brush not so much.
If the load needs to chase the lands than I chase the lands if it doesn't then we keep rolling.

 

[Taylorbok]

Guess it depends on your goals. I can watch groups change every .001 at 1000 uards with my 6 dasher so on that gun it's relevant. One a 30-30 for brush not so much.
If the load needs to chase the lands than I chase the lands if it doesn't then we keep rolling.

My last 30SM barrel shot the same load and seating depth from start to finish, groups never opened up. I wish I could remember how far the lands had moved but it was lots.

More and more people are realizing it matters less than they thought and were just fooled by shooting a few 5 shot groups.

 

[bigngreen]

My last 30SM barrel shot the same load and seating depth from start to finish, groups never opened up. I wish I could remember how far the lands had moved but it was lots.

More and more people are realizing it matters less than they thought and were just fooled by shooting a few 5 shot groups.

If you can't see it rock on, if I have one that proves it needs a move I move it. Some tolerate it much more than others.
I find the argument odd that if you can't see it, it must be irrelivant for everyone.

 

[Taylorbok]

If you can't see it rock on, if I have one that proves it needs a move I move it. Some tolerate it much more than others.
I find the argument odd that if you can't see it, it must be irrelivant for everyone.

I used to go hard on seating depth then I did some reading and watching also more testing to try and verify if it actually seemed to make a difference. 3-5 round groups seemed to produce what could easily be construed as meaningful change where once you open up to 10+ round groups everything gets so fuzzy it didn't seem to matter. Even if you do see a perceivable meaningful difference it's usually so small that it will usually blend into the noise over time

Over the last several barrels I've been happy not changing my load at all, same as last barrel and go shoot.

 

[cajun]

With the Hornady OAL gauge you end up pushing the bullet into the lands 0.005" to 0.020".

I use a dowel inserted in the muzzle and push the dowel and the tool rod. You can feel where it just touches. As for using Hornadys tapped cases you can use a headspace comparator and measure your brass and the modified case and add or subtract the difference. Honestly I don't want a hunting bullet in the lands so a few thou is not a deal breaker.

 

[Axl]

In addition to this, I also use Wheelers method to adjust my size die. This also requires the ejector as well as the firing pin/spring to be removed.

I leave the ejector out, on a new rifle, until hunting season. Added bonus is your brass doesn't go flying.

 

[bigngreen]

I used to go hard on seating depth then I did some reading and watching also more testing to try and verify if it actually seemed to make a difference. 3-5 round groups seemed to produce what could easily be construed as meaningful change where once you open up to 10+ round groups everything gets so fuzzy it didn't seem to matter. Even if you do see a perceivable meaningful difference it's usually so small that it will usually blend into the noise over time

Over the last several barrels I've been happy not changing my load at all, same as last barrel and go shoot.

What ever get you where you need to be that's all good. We can write a lot off as being lost in the noise, but for me there is a lot less noise when you dial out all you can within your needs. Some guns I shoot didn't even get a seating depth test, some like my bench gun would be checked every 100 ish rounds, test and make sure I'm in staying in what ever node it's on. I've had a couple that I moved every 50 rounds to maintain.

 

[HRM Johnny]

What ever get you where you need to be that's all good. We can write a lot off as being lost in the noise, but for me there is a lot less noise when you dial out all you can within your needs. Some guns I shoot didn't even get a seating depth test, some like my bench gun would be checked every 100 ish rounds, test and make sure I'm in staying in what ever node it's on. I've had a couple that I moved every 50 rounds to maintain.

thanks.

 

[PatriotHenry]

It allows you to accurately determine where the bullet just touches the lands.

Also shoulder bump