Thoughts on this new Illinois law?

[JimFromTN]

I'm pretty much in disagreement with most of what you have posted. I spent 20yrs in the courts as a liaison for law enforcement. Most of the public defenders that I knew were hard working, diligent attorneys. Many were very committed to public service and defending those without their own attorneys. In many cases, public defenders would get financial resources to hire expert witnesses or get assistance with complex cases. A public defender's job is not "to get you to confess and take a plea deal", as you have stated.

Do you really believe what you posted; "Maybe they should be making it so that people with money can't get bail"? Non-violent offends who are unlikely to engage in a repeat offence and who are likely to return to court should be released without bail regardless of their financial situation. Bail is a useful tool and the lack of cash bail is putting career offenders back on the streets the very same day they were arrested. How many of them do you suspect will voluntarily return to court and face a multitude of charges that will likely get them incarcerated? By putting them back on the streets, when there is a propensity to continually commit crimes, is just further stacking the deck against them and putting innocent citizens at risk.

NYC Mayor Adams has, himself, has been fighting to overturn the no-cash-bail laws in NY. He used many statistics in support of his arguments. The most glaring statistic was that the 10 ten most prolific criminals in NY have committed 500 crimes, yes, just 10 street thugs. Some of those 10 thugs are still walking the streets. Had the system worked, they would have all been in jail long before 50 crimes were committed, never mind 500. It is outrageous what is going on here in NY.

I have no doubt that public defenders work hard. Many of them have to handle over a thousand cases a year. How effective can they be with that kind of workload? How much time can they spend on an individual case? My knowledge comes from someone who was put into the system. He was pushed to take a plea. The public defender did no leg work. He met with his attorney maybe 5 minutes a week if he met that week. My understanding is that this is quite common. I am sure there are public defenders who work over a hundred hours a week and spend their own money. I believe they are in the minority. Not many people go to law school to get out and make $50k a year working 100 hours a week. Thats the average salary of a public defender in TN, by the way

As for what I believe, I believe that everyone should be equal regardless of how much is in their bank account. I believe the constitution should apply to everyone regardless of wealth. If a non violent offender with no previous offenses has to sit in jail until a trial because that person does not have the money for bail then why not make everyone sit in jail until their trial? Isn't that fair? Why should we favor wealth? Seems like people are so worried about violent repeat offenders getting out that we are willing to sacrifice others for our own safety. I guess its the price they have to pay for our security.

 

[Hand Skills]

I was catching up with a recently retired rancher in the grocery store last week.

On the topic of repeat offenders, he suggested maybe the third conviction could come with with castration.

Might be a good disincentive...?

 

[SDPlinker]

 

[74honker]

@JimFromTN, please don't take this personal. I don't think anyone here doesn't think that our judicial system needs some work. The problem I have with what you say is this. No matter what your level of prosperity or color, at what point is the simple matter of right is right and wrong is wrong gone to the wayside. This is exactly what the problem is! We have literally generations now in our country where the bad behavior is accepted practice with no consequence. I grew up poor and still am but I know right from wrong and live my life that way because that's how I was taught as you were too I'm sure. The way to fix the problem of backlogged overworked PDs is to lessen the case load by people actually caring enough to live life the right way and not trying to get put into prison. These matters fall solely upon the shoulders of the offenders. They make the choice to do the wrongs that they do. And I don't buy the crap about the "underprivilged" either. If you have the drive to better yourself, you will. Doesn't matter who you are. Somewhere along the line this has been lost and these folks just play the blame game on thier own lack of gumption to do the right thing, work hard, and actually contribute to society in a positive manner. Moral of the story, less criminals, less work for the public defenders. Maybe I'm just pipe dreaming here.

 

[JimFromTN]

@JimFromTN, please don't take this personal. I don't think anyone here doesn't think that our judicial system needs some work. The problem I have with what you say is this. No matter what your level of prosperity or color, at what point is the simple matter of right is right and wrong is wrong gone to the wayside. This is exactly what the problem is! We have literally generations now in our country where the bad behavior is accepted practice with no consequence. I grew up poor and still am but I know right from wrong and live my life that way because that's how I was taught as you were too I'm sure. The way to fix the problem of backlogged overworked PDs is to lessen the case load by people actually caring enough to live life the right way and not trying to get put into prison. These matters fall solely upon the shoulders of the offenders. They make the choice to do the wrongs that they do. And I don't buy the crap about the "underprivilged" either. If you have the drive to better yourself, you will. Doesn't matter who you are. Somewhere along the line this has been lost and these folks just play the blame game on thier own lack of gumption to do the right thing, work hard, and actually contribute to society in a positive manner. Moral of the story, less criminals, less work for the public defenders. Maybe I'm just pipe dreaming here.

I don't take it personal. I don't think Illinois is handling it properly. I am saying that they are trying to address a very real issue. An issue that very few want to address properly for the simple reason that it would be a major change and it would cost allot money. Illinois is taking the least expensive route to addressing the issue with an almost guarantee of failure. It is a pipe dream to think people are just going to stop commiting crimes just like its a pipe dream to think that only the guilty will get charged. Its a pipe dream to think that in every case the punishment will fit the crime. Its also a pipe dream to think that just because you walk the straight and narrow, you won't ever have a run in with the law. You can't control everything and crazy things happen in life. The person I know who was thrown into the system didn't do anything to end up there. It was proven in court and the charges were thrown out. The only thing that was unusual about his case is that he did not plead out. Had he pled guilty, we would have spent less time in jail than he did sitting in jail waiting to prove his innocence. To make matters worse, his PD played no part in proving his innocence. My brother, who is not an attorney, got the charges dropped by simply getting a copy of the police report and taking it to the judge. His PD could have done that day one and he would not have had to spend 8 months in jail. Moral of the story, if you are poor like you say you are then you need to put away a nest egg for an attorney because if you or someone in your family is ever sucked into some circumstance out of your control and are charged with a crime, you/they are guilty unless you can get your own attorney. Of all the people on here who can afford an attorney, would you put your faith in a PD and forgo getting your own? I know I wouldn't.

 

[74honker]

I don't take it personal. I don't think Illinois is handling it properly. I am saying that they are trying to address a very real issue. An issue that very few want to address properly for the simple reason that it would be a major change and it would cost allot money. Illinois is taking the least expensive route to addressing the issue with an almost guarantee of failure. It is a pipe dream to think people are just going to stop commiting crimes just like its a pipe dream to think that only the guilty will get charged. Its a pipe dream to think that in every case the punishment will fit the crime. Its also a pipe dream to think that just because you walk the straight and narrow, you won't ever have a run in with the law. You can't control everything and crazy things happen in life. The person I know who was thrown into the system didn't do anything to end up there. It was proven in court and the charges were thrown out. The only thing that was unusual about his case is that he did not plead out. Had he pled guilty, we would have spent less time in jail than he did sitting in jail waiting to prove his innocence. To make matters worse, his PD played no part in proving his innocence. My brother, who is not an attorney, got the charges dropped by simply getting a copy of the police report and taking it to the judge. His PD could have done that day one and he would not have had to spend 8 months in jail. Moral of the story, if you are poor like you say you are then you need to put away a nest egg for an attorney because if you or someone in your family is ever sucked into some circumstance out of your control and are charged with a crime, you/they are guilty unless you can get your own attorney. Of all the people on here who can afford an attorney, would you put your faith in a PD and forgo getting your own? I know I wouldn't.

I am truly sorry that your friend had to go through that. A friend of mine told me long ago "Don't ever forget that 50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of thier class". Goes for every proffession if you really think about it. Not everyone is good at what they do. I'm sure I am pipe dreaming but facts are facts. Less criminals less crime. When things are at first just tolerated it leads to acceptance and things have progressively gotten worse over the last decade or so. Far too much has been tolerated and now accepted. It's a cancer of our society. And yes I am probably considered poor by most standards and yes I do have a savings account. But I actually work 3 jobs and my wife 2 jobs to get by and have a little extra now and then to play with.

 

[Veteran]

I was catching up with a recently retired rancher in the grocery store last week.

On the topic of repeat offenders, he suggested maybe the third conviction could come with with castration.

Might be a good disincentive...?

Quite merciful compared to the old west where 1st offense was hanging.

 

[JimFromTN]

I am truly sorry that your friend had to go through that. A friend of mine told me long ago "Don't ever forget that 50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of thier class". Goes for every proffession if you really think about it. Not everyone is good at what they do. I'm sure I am pipe dreaming but facts are facts. Less criminals less crime. When things are at first just tolerated it leads to acceptance and things have progressively gotten worse over the last decade or so. Far too much has been tolerated and now accepted. It's a cancer of our society. And yes I am probably considered poor by most standards and yes I do have a savings account. But I actually work 3 jobs and my wife 2 jobs to get by and have a little extra now and then to play with.

When you are the lowest paying employer and you make your employees work mass amounts of unpaid overtime, you are more than likely going to be hiring from the bottom of the class. Our criminal justice system has been a science experiment from day one. Its gone from the extreme on one side to the extreme on the other. You say we are too tolerant but the US is the world leader in incarceration. There are 2 million people in US prisons and jails. Thats a 500% increase in the last 40 years. Its an $81 billion a year business.

Found this article. Its actually more like $182 billion total when you add up all of the expenses.

Mass Incarceration Costs $182 Billion Every Year

The Prison Policy Initiative found that mass incarceration costs $100 billion more each year than previously thought.

eji.org