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This is a thread for discussion of the article, The Ultimate Squirrel Rifle, By Glenn Burroughs. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
The Ultimate Squirrel Rifle
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just country
Well-Known Member
morning, ruger came out with the 77/22 magnum. a very accurate weapon. 4-12
Redfield 5 star.
the Remington 36gr green box 22 magnum is totally devastating to squirrels.
takes the head off. gone. lightbulb
gun)
Redfield 5 star.
the Remington 36gr green box 22 magnum is totally devastating to squirrels.
takes the head off. gone. lightbulb
gun)
del2les
Well-Known Member
While I agree with some of the article, it misses much. The 17 Mach2 is more expensive, very difficult to locate (worse than 22's for now), much louder in the deep woods were stealth is needed, and isn't any more accurate than a boat load of average 22LR rifles. Also, rifles for 17 Mach2 tend to be harder to locate. While those who shoot few squirrels may appreciate its flat trajectory and not swayed by the negatives, price, noise etc, for us old dyed-in-the-wool squirrel hunters, we do not see it ever replacing the ubiquitous 22.
I have hunted squirrels since childhood, and growing up in the Southeast US, squirrels were everywhere and a mainstay of hunting for beginning youth hunters. In young adulthood, a morning or afternoon hunt would easily reach the limit on squirrels, and those shots would be from 5 yards to nearly 100yds in tall, large oak and pecan groves and even fox squirrels in corn fields.
22 rifles I use/used were mostly scoped, Remington 541/581's, Remington 572 pumps, Ruger 10/22's, older 513T's scoped and iron sights, Marlin lever and semi's, CZ American, Ruger 77/22custom, and a few others. Except for a couple of worn out semi's and using the rifle's favorite 22 brand, all these 22 rifles would easily shoot sub inch at 50 yards, with many shooting 1/2 inch, or even smaller, groups at 50yds. And 50 yds was the typical zero range with the occasional 75 yd zero for late season hunts in leafless oak groves. Even today and living in Colorado, most of my 22's are zeroed at 75 yds, and my wife and I routinely practice on 1-2 inch target spinners and swingers at 75-150 yds. Small spring P-dogs, black birds and others pay a dear price if found within a reasonable range.
Since 22 ammo was very cheap(compared to 17Mach2, if found, they still are), these rifles would see a LOT of shooting fun and long range practice, and the ever present informal and formal shooting competitions, turkey shoots, etc. On that note, 22LR's history of fantastic groups at 100 yd competition is unquestionable, and the old 513T, Rem 541 and my Ruger 77/22 custom using higher velocity hunting ammo shoot ragged dime to nickle groups at 100 yds.
The versatility of a good 22 rifle is another factor to consider, for when hunting close to feeding locations, stealth is often a consideration. Thus, 22 Standard Velocity loads made for an even quieter hunt, and on some occasions, 22 shorts made for fun at shorter distance and stew pot filling. Then there are the CB loads for close in pest control and a few hunting apps, and the versatility of wearing any one of my 22 pistols or revolvers and not having to carry 2 different calibers of ammo.
Once I did have a desire to hunt squirrels at longer ranges, and I thought about the good ol' 22 Mag. As I pondered this choice, the V-8 moment hit me, I already owned a nice and very accurate Rem 700 BDL in 222 Rem that I could reduce load to similar 22 Mag performance. After short load work, I had a bulkbox 50 gr SP bullet on top of a load of Herc Unique that yielded 1,900 fps over the Oehler, and it gave me 1/2 moa @ 100 yds. That rifle and load took a lot of grays and fox squirrels from the pasture and fields edges.
When all things are considered, the ubiquitous 22LR rifle and its ammo match makes for a unique package that is very hard to beat. Others will shoot flatter, hit harder, be more modern, etc, etc, but when cost, practice amount, ammo availability, noise levels, versatility, etc at seriously looked at, the 22 remains and will remain the popular favorite.
I have hunted squirrels since childhood, and growing up in the Southeast US, squirrels were everywhere and a mainstay of hunting for beginning youth hunters. In young adulthood, a morning or afternoon hunt would easily reach the limit on squirrels, and those shots would be from 5 yards to nearly 100yds in tall, large oak and pecan groves and even fox squirrels in corn fields.
22 rifles I use/used were mostly scoped, Remington 541/581's, Remington 572 pumps, Ruger 10/22's, older 513T's scoped and iron sights, Marlin lever and semi's, CZ American, Ruger 77/22custom, and a few others. Except for a couple of worn out semi's and using the rifle's favorite 22 brand, all these 22 rifles would easily shoot sub inch at 50 yards, with many shooting 1/2 inch, or even smaller, groups at 50yds. And 50 yds was the typical zero range with the occasional 75 yd zero for late season hunts in leafless oak groves. Even today and living in Colorado, most of my 22's are zeroed at 75 yds, and my wife and I routinely practice on 1-2 inch target spinners and swingers at 75-150 yds. Small spring P-dogs, black birds and others pay a dear price if found within a reasonable range.
Since 22 ammo was very cheap(compared to 17Mach2, if found, they still are), these rifles would see a LOT of shooting fun and long range practice, and the ever present informal and formal shooting competitions, turkey shoots, etc. On that note, 22LR's history of fantastic groups at 100 yd competition is unquestionable, and the old 513T, Rem 541 and my Ruger 77/22 custom using higher velocity hunting ammo shoot ragged dime to nickle groups at 100 yds.
The versatility of a good 22 rifle is another factor to consider, for when hunting close to feeding locations, stealth is often a consideration. Thus, 22 Standard Velocity loads made for an even quieter hunt, and on some occasions, 22 shorts made for fun at shorter distance and stew pot filling. Then there are the CB loads for close in pest control and a few hunting apps, and the versatility of wearing any one of my 22 pistols or revolvers and not having to carry 2 different calibers of ammo.
Once I did have a desire to hunt squirrels at longer ranges, and I thought about the good ol' 22 Mag. As I pondered this choice, the V-8 moment hit me, I already owned a nice and very accurate Rem 700 BDL in 222 Rem that I could reduce load to similar 22 Mag performance. After short load work, I had a bulkbox 50 gr SP bullet on top of a load of Herc Unique that yielded 1,900 fps over the Oehler, and it gave me 1/2 moa @ 100 yds. That rifle and load took a lot of grays and fox squirrels from the pasture and fields edges.
When all things are considered, the ubiquitous 22LR rifle and its ammo match makes for a unique package that is very hard to beat. Others will shoot flatter, hit harder, be more modern, etc, etc, but when cost, practice amount, ammo availability, noise levels, versatility, etc at seriously looked at, the 22 remains and will remain the popular favorite.
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
There is no doubt that the 22 LR is king. having said that I now prefer the 17 HMR because of the accuracy at longer distances. I have a couple of match grade 22s but the 17 HMR will out shoot them a 100+yards.
After hunted quite a bit, the squirrel's get smart and keep plenty of distance between the shooter and themselves. With the HMR I can take them on at distances of 100+yards with very good odds
of success.
With the combination of better quality bullets, loads and a custom barrel. 1/2 MOA at 100 yards
with 10 shots is not to hard.
yes it is not as quite as a 22 LR but it is not as loud as a shotgun and you can stand off/back and pick the unsuspecting squirrels off.
and for some reason the 17 HMR ammo Is not hard to come by like the 17 Mach 2.
Just my preference
J E CUSTOM
After hunted quite a bit, the squirrel's get smart and keep plenty of distance between the shooter and themselves. With the HMR I can take them on at distances of 100+yards with very good odds
of success.
With the combination of better quality bullets, loads and a custom barrel. 1/2 MOA at 100 yards
with 10 shots is not to hard.
yes it is not as quite as a 22 LR but it is not as loud as a shotgun and you can stand off/back and pick the unsuspecting squirrels off.
and for some reason the 17 HMR ammo Is not hard to come by like the 17 Mach 2.
Just my preference
J E CUSTOM
HammerB1
Official LRH Sponsor
The 22 LR is still king. I have taken more squirrels with it than anything else, (mostly head) shots. With a custom barrel on a Ruger M77, I have taken them out to 75+ yards. Another reason the 22 will always rule, quiet compared to most 17's, I have them also but always go back to the 22.
Brian
Brian
del2les
Well-Known Member
Given current trends, the 17 Mach 2 is a dying cartridge, and several written articles and conversations with ammo reps have born this out. Some have already dropped it from production, and a couple of others are very limited in their runs. Thus part of the increased influx of SA brands coming in to the US, and why a search on various gun and gun product related auction sites reveal HIGH prices required for a brick of this ammo.
If one is a casual shooter/squirrel hunter, that may not be a big deal, but for those youngins who hunt squirrels several times a week and also shoot box after box of ammo in fun practice and other hunting activities, it can and will be costly.
Actually, I can reload the 22 Hornet or my reduced load 222 Rem cheaper than an equal amount of 17 Mach 2's, and both those loads are ballistically better than the 17 Mach 2.
P.S. One of the questions poised was which would I prefer if living in the woods in a survival situ, and on more than one occasion, that question has been real world answered for me: The 22 LR. I have taken everything from birds, ducks, geese, squirrel, rabbits, turkey and even a few deer with the trusty 22 LR. Meat damage is very acceptable, and while deer are routinely killed with head shots, the CCI 36 gr HP penetrates 10-12 inches on small deer heart shots. Death occurred in a few seconds, and the animal only went about 50 yds before collapsing. Most 17 rimfire impacts I have witnessed, produced much meat damage and penetration was erratic and not very deep.
If one is a casual shooter/squirrel hunter, that may not be a big deal, but for those youngins who hunt squirrels several times a week and also shoot box after box of ammo in fun practice and other hunting activities, it can and will be costly.
Actually, I can reload the 22 Hornet or my reduced load 222 Rem cheaper than an equal amount of 17 Mach 2's, and both those loads are ballistically better than the 17 Mach 2.
P.S. One of the questions poised was which would I prefer if living in the woods in a survival situ, and on more than one occasion, that question has been real world answered for me: The 22 LR. I have taken everything from birds, ducks, geese, squirrel, rabbits, turkey and even a few deer with the trusty 22 LR. Meat damage is very acceptable, and while deer are routinely killed with head shots, the CCI 36 gr HP penetrates 10-12 inches on small deer heart shots. Death occurred in a few seconds, and the animal only went about 50 yds before collapsing. Most 17 rimfire impacts I have witnessed, produced much meat damage and penetration was erratic and not very deep.
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
22 is much cheaper to shoot and does not destroy the meat as much as a 17. With that said, I use a 22 pellet rifle. Much quitter when shot which does not alarm other squirrels that are near by.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Sounds Like we all like the 22LR best But with the range (100 to 200 yards the range I have the most fun at), the 22 LR just wont perform.
I prefer to hunt with a 22LR pistol when I can, but have places where the shots will be 100+ yards
and the challenge of head shots at these ranges with the 17 HMR is good practice for the long range rifles. I also tried a 22 WMR and it was capable but as we all know, ammo is very hard to find like the 17 Mach 2 ammo.
I have a great little 22 K Hornet but it is a little to much and with the availability and Price of the HMR ammo it is a very attractive round for this type of shooting.
Like center fire rifles, there may be a favorite cartridge, but it will not do everything well and more than one cartridge is needed if you want to hunt everything.
For Squirrels I use a 17 caliber pellet rifle, a 17 HMR rifle, a 22LR pistol, a 22LR Rifle, and a 22WMR
Pistol depending on the terrain and the distances.
Head shots are not only a challenge at these distances, they are a must if you want to eat them.
+ you don't have to look for them.
J E CUSTOM
I prefer to hunt with a 22LR pistol when I can, but have places where the shots will be 100+ yards
and the challenge of head shots at these ranges with the 17 HMR is good practice for the long range rifles. I also tried a 22 WMR and it was capable but as we all know, ammo is very hard to find like the 17 Mach 2 ammo.
I have a great little 22 K Hornet but it is a little to much and with the availability and Price of the HMR ammo it is a very attractive round for this type of shooting.
Like center fire rifles, there may be a favorite cartridge, but it will not do everything well and more than one cartridge is needed if you want to hunt everything.
For Squirrels I use a 17 caliber pellet rifle, a 17 HMR rifle, a 22LR pistol, a 22LR Rifle, and a 22WMR
Pistol depending on the terrain and the distances.
Head shots are not only a challenge at these distances, they are a must if you want to eat them.
+ you don't have to look for them.
J E CUSTOM
F224
Well-Known Member
My son shoots a Lija barreled 77/22 in 17M2 and routinely kills prairie dogs well pas 200 yards with it off of shooting sticks while walking around the towns. It's a highly under appreciated cartridge.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
If shooting them as pest control, use the hollow point so any shot will end there life.
If shooting them for meat, and head shots are the norm, use the 17 gr A Max. If you cant always depend on getting a head shot, I recommend the 20 grain CCI FMJs for less tissue damage.
J E CUSTOM
Litehiker
Well-Known Member
Well fellers, my favorite squirrel/groundhog rifle is my Ruger 96/22 mag lever action rifle with its Green Mountain octagonal barrel. I put the barrel on last year after getting tired or 1 1/2" to 2" groups at 50 yards from the Ruger barrel.
It's now 3/4" to 1" capable at 50 yards with CCI 40 gr. plastic tipped ammo, its favorite diet.
Ruger has not made the 96/22 lever gun for many years and I wish they would bring it back. They also made it in .44 magnum centerfire to match their revolvers. Cool!
My best friend has a stainless Savage bolt action rifle with a laminated stock for a favorite squirrel rifle. It's a good looking piece and a bit more accurate than my Ruger.
To me .22 WMR is the best squirrel medicine and good on woodchucks up to 75 yards.
Eric B.
It's now 3/4" to 1" capable at 50 yards with CCI 40 gr. plastic tipped ammo, its favorite diet.
Ruger has not made the 96/22 lever gun for many years and I wish they would bring it back. They also made it in .44 magnum centerfire to match their revolvers. Cool!
My best friend has a stainless Savage bolt action rifle with a laminated stock for a favorite squirrel rifle. It's a good looking piece and a bit more accurate than my Ruger.
To me .22 WMR is the best squirrel medicine and good on woodchucks up to 75 yards.
Eric B.
I have hunted with both extensivly. I like the trajectory of the .17 Mach2, but it does not seem to kill squirells as well as the .22LR. I have had squirells that were shot with the .17 Mach 2 die in a tree instantly, yet not fall. Seems as the shock causes the claws to dig in. With the .22 the almost always seem to fall right out of a tree, even with sub-sonic .22 HP's.
Just my observations.
Just my observations.
Litehiker
Well-Known Member
Seems like there is not much love for the .22 magnum. But consider its energy at ranges up to 150 yards. And its flatter trajectory when compared to the .22 LR.
No, it is not as fast or flat shooting as the .17s but it does have "knock-down power" that exceeds them.
And if necessary it can be used as a defensive round that has some punch. I'd rather have a .22 mag pistol than .32 pistol.
The change in the last 20 years of .22 mag bullets from gilded lead to jacketed lead with either hollow points or plastic tipped rounds has helped accuracy as well as lethality.
And these new bullets are generally heavier. Originally .22 mag bullets were just .22 LR bullets. This is no longer true.
Eric B.
No, it is not as fast or flat shooting as the .17s but it does have "knock-down power" that exceeds them.
And if necessary it can be used as a defensive round that has some punch. I'd rather have a .22 mag pistol than .32 pistol.
The change in the last 20 years of .22 mag bullets from gilded lead to jacketed lead with either hollow points or plastic tipped rounds has helped accuracy as well as lethality.
And these new bullets are generally heavier. Originally .22 mag bullets were just .22 LR bullets. This is no longer true.
Eric B.
