The importance of being Solid

[mrb1982]

Thanks Broz, that clarifies things perfectly, and also identifies some flaws that will help me out. I usually try to read through a lot of stuff in the ELR forum because the only way to learn is to hear the stuff that the guys who are already doing it are doing. Thanks again.

 

[rick523]

Broz,
Your method sounds very similar to the method Todd Hodnet uses in the mag pull video long range accuarcy. I pretty much use the same style the only thing my left hand touches is the rear bag. When I started doing this my group consistancy went to an entirely different level.

 

[daniel brothers]

this post deserves to be brought back up for a great read

 

[Shane1]

I have found over the years that solid is a must for long range. This is even more so past 1000. It all started while I was in the midwest and was shooting prone off some wet soggy pasture one day. My bipod was getting a little deeper with each shot. My groups were noticably larger that day. Later it showed up again with a horrid group when I rested my rear bag on top of a shooting mat. Removing the mat tighten things up a lot especially in vertical. Since then I have played with this a bit and have found this to be a huge help to me, especially at ELR. I do these things, once prone I take my left hand and grab the bipod legs and scratch them into the dirt to get them on solid ground. I only use a dense rear bag and set up to be low on the target and work the rifle butt down to be as solid as possible. You won't find any sort of mat or padding under my rifle or bags. I want them solid as can be in the dirt. From this point I ever so slightly pre-load the bipod forward just a bit, just enough so I can feel the recoil pad on top my shoulder. Then I check my cheekweld like you would with your anchor point on a bow. I have found that when all is right I can feel it is and becomes a confident feel for me with consistant practice.

Another point along this line is that while attending the Defensive Edge long range class Shawn made it known he is very fond of pod locks. I think this is also to keep things solid durring recoil.

One of my shooting buddies, "Montana Marine" has been using the aid of a monopod on the rear of his stock to stiffen things up. He shared with me at our last long range shoot that it has noticably reduced vertical spread for him.

So, I just wanted to pass this along. Take it or leave it. But for me I can not get things solid enough and the more rock solid the better.

Jeff

This post should be long range shooting doctrine, Jeff's contributions to this sport threw his posts and reviews have deffinatly contributed to my long range shooting more then any other material I've read. If there was a long range hunting hall of fame you have my nomination.

 

[Broz]

This post should be long range shooting doctrine, Jeff's contributions to this sport threw his posts and reviews have deffinatly contributed to my long range shooting more then any other material I've read. If there was a long range hunting hall of fame you have my nomination.

Thank you all so much for the kind words. It makes me feel go to think others get some use from my posts. I do appreciate this.

Thank you.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

To add a little update since I started this thread, still today I see often "the importance of being solid".

Venturing out farther with ELR it is really pronounced. "The Soggy Bag Syndrome" as I call it, just will not cut it. I missed a small steel gong (6") the other day. It was at 700 yards. I immediately was thinking something must have been wrong with my rifle. I repositioned the rear bags and put the next 3 close to center mass. The problem was I was so confident from shooting this gong before I got sloppy and was shooting off a "soggy bag" in the rear. Stack them up solid guys, the tighter the better.

Shooting at 1 mile plus often now, and as far as 2971 yards so far with the LRKM. I find it more challenging to get the good feel with the bipod high and the rear bag low for an incline shot. But it never fails, when I get the bags right, the preload and cheek weld feeling good, my hits are confined to a much smaller area.


Jeff

 

[mrb1982]

Since reading this thread originally, the pointers I have taken have brought my groups in half. Good stuff here. One thing I could use a little clarification on is cheek weld. Do you guys just rest your cheek firmly on the stock or ligtly touch it? It seems that if I lay my face in too relaxed or firm, I get some side pressure it seems and, and my groups suffer. Just curious just how a good cheek weld should be. I got things solid now, got good trigger control, my trigger hand is good, just need to figure out the cheek weld thing. I did some reading in the basics section but would like to see what some of you guys are doing to have a good solid consistent cheek weld. Seems like probably one of the more important roles in being solid

 

[Broz]

mrb, I use my cheek weld more as a reference point like a bow anchor. Not real firm but the same each time as far as position. Most of my rifles I actually use the corner of my mouth on the roll over of the stock. For me that position give a full clear through the scope and the feel is very repeatable. Kinda like a "kisser button" on a bow string if you have ever used one of those. So, light but firm pressure and the same position each time.

Jeff

 

[mrb1982]

mrb, I use my cheek weld more as a reference point like a bow anchor. Not real firm but the same each time as far as position. Most of my rifles I actually use the corner of my mouth on the roll over of the stock. For me that position give a full clear through the scope and the feel is very repeatable. Kinda like a "kisser button" on a bow string if you have ever used one of those. So, light but firm pressure and the same position each time.

Jeff

Excellent Jeff, thanks. I shoot a ton of archery in the winter so that is a very simple reference for me. Seems like I am doing just that while shooting, just need a little more practice to make it more natural and good muscle memory. Thanks

 

[jmden]

mrb, I use my cheek weld more as a reference point like a bow anchor. Not real firm but the same each time as far as position. Most of my rifles I actually use the corner of my mouth on the roll over of the stock. For me that position give a full clear through the scope and the feel is very repeatable. Kinda like a "kisser button" on a bow string if you have ever used one of those. So, light but firm pressure and the same position each time.

Jeff

Jeff, Is this a technique you came up with yourself that works for you? It this something that Shawn teaches?

I have typically found for me that I shoot best LR, with the entire weight of my head resting on the adj. cheekpiece (which is quite a bit! ). That's the only way I've found to relax my head/neck completely resulting in less movement of the reticle. Unless you just barely touch the corner of your mouth to the stock, which it sounds like you do, it seems you'd get movement of the reticle. But doing that, it seems it'd be difficult to hold your head there without moving it, causing your sight picture to change...?

Just trying to understand the different styles and figure out what is best to do.

 

[Broz]

Jeff, Is this a technique you came up with yourself that works for you? It this something that Shawn teaches?.

This is my personal technique I have developed through trial and error over 1000's of rounds at long range. I don't remember Shawn critiquing my form when I attended his class a few years back. Other than when he seen I didn't have a pod lock on my bipod he handed me one of his Harris's to use with a pod lock installed. We were making first round hits over 1500 yards the first day, so I guess he thought we were doing ok.

However I do teach this technique in my long range classes.

No I don't rest the weight of my head on the stock. As mrb mentioned muscle memory and practice is key. It is amazing what muscle memory does. A person that is not use to shooting prone will struggle for a while until they have trained their own muscles to easily get into proper prone position. After that is is simple second nature.

Jeff

 

[Eaglet]

Guys, I feel like joking but I'll try to be a good guy!

I believe that concistancy is the name of the game. I see Broz's method working with no problem... I can also see jmden method working also... The only problem with jmden method would be a lighter head or heavier head which it does not happen over night. So it'd be safe. Broz's method would be a better one for different shooters shooting the same rifle with the possibility of same point of impact.

It's all about being able to do it exaclty the same every single time... that's the secret in mho. and it does take practice.

Good Day!

 

[jmden]

Good point, Eaglet. Plenty to learn...

 

[Broz]

It's all about being able to do it exaclty the same every single time... that's the secret in mho. and it does take practice.

No truer words have been spoken here.

Jeff