You also need a good trigger!!! I like less than 2 lbs. I know this can be dangerous but not if its an accutrigger. I have one thats set on 8 oz. it shoot a 5 shot group that looks like one perfect bullet hole!! With no wind will shoot a 1/2 in group @ 600 yrds. (if I can hold it). I shoot 22-250s to 300 win mags. I use H4831 H4350 Varget and Retumbo powders. Twist in the barrel tells you what weight bullet will shoot best. nosler seems to be the most accurate bullet on average. Ive had guns I have to shoot over 300 rounds to find the right one but most is within 150 rounds.
THA thing you did to your ammo to help your precision is ?
- Thread starter herbeapuce
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herbeapuce
Member
thanks everyone for trying to help me. I am listening to all you are saying.
I did free float my tikka t3 varmint stainless ( 24"barrel, 1 in 10 twist ) it is very easy to do with sandpaper and masking tape btw. I also changed the aluminium recoil lug for a stainless steel one. I also open the synthetic stock ( Tupperware stock some call it) where the lug is sitting and bedded the lug into the stock.
I have a nice wiha German made torque screw driver and I the gun is torqued to tikka's spec.
my trigger is really good. it's light and crisp. I love it. it's always a surprise when it goes
I have a good choice of powders for my caliber. I had H 4831 but it's now empty. I do have a pound each of IMR 4831, Retumbo, reloader 22, IMR 4350, and also some H380 for my 22-250..
Last time I loaded Retumbo with magnum primers it wasn't good at all . I ended up not finishing my box.
I hear what you are saying abouth OAL and I will start playing with it now... maybe my gun doesn't like a bullet almost touching the rifling, and this is how I did all my bullets...I did them all as long as possible..
I will also try more bullets. I tried the hornady sst 117, wasn't any better.
one thing that I did not do is cleaning every other 11 shots or so. now could you describe what kind of cleaning are you doing ? are you cleaning mostly carbon build up or going after cooper fouling also ? how many strokes of bronze brush, if any... etc..I would appreciate if you could share your cleaning drill after each series..
@ dakota1tn -- I quote you:
"I also aneal my brass after 4 fireings "
I just wana make sure I understand you correctly ( English came late in my life...) By this are you saying you aneal the same case many times ? every 4 shots ? or should I understand this as that you aneal your new cases after their 4 th shooting, but only once?
thanks guys . I learned many things here ....
stef
I did free float my tikka t3 varmint stainless ( 24"barrel, 1 in 10 twist ) it is very easy to do with sandpaper and masking tape btw. I also changed the aluminium recoil lug for a stainless steel one. I also open the synthetic stock ( Tupperware stock some call it) where the lug is sitting and bedded the lug into the stock.
I have a nice wiha German made torque screw driver and I the gun is torqued to tikka's spec.
my trigger is really good. it's light and crisp. I love it. it's always a surprise when it goes
I have a good choice of powders for my caliber. I had H 4831 but it's now empty. I do have a pound each of IMR 4831, Retumbo, reloader 22, IMR 4350, and also some H380 for my 22-250..
Last time I loaded Retumbo with magnum primers it wasn't good at all . I ended up not finishing my box.
I hear what you are saying abouth OAL and I will start playing with it now... maybe my gun doesn't like a bullet almost touching the rifling, and this is how I did all my bullets...I did them all as long as possible..
I will also try more bullets. I tried the hornady sst 117, wasn't any better.
one thing that I did not do is cleaning every other 11 shots or so. now could you describe what kind of cleaning are you doing ? are you cleaning mostly carbon build up or going after cooper fouling also ? how many strokes of bronze brush, if any... etc..I would appreciate if you could share your cleaning drill after each series..
@ dakota1tn -- I quote you:
"I also aneal my brass after 4 fireings "
I just wana make sure I understand you correctly ( English came late in my life...) By this are you saying you aneal the same case many times ? every 4 shots ? or should I understand this as that you aneal your new cases after their 4 th shooting, but only once?
thanks guys . I learned many things here ....
stef
DaleJ
Active Member
Throw away my Lyman Universal case trimmer and replace it with a Wilson. Then I bought another Wilson to use a fixture mounted 22 degree inside neck chamfer tool. This helped with neck tension and reduced bullet run out. Straight ammo shoots great!
desertbull
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 251
How are you determining your seating depth?
herbeapuce
Member
I measured the closed bolt with my cleaning rod from the muzzle, then measured the tip of a bullet in the land.
I get maximum OAL at 3.157" with Hornady 117 interlock.
I then went with what dakota1tn said (2 touching lands then 2 @ 10 thou. 2 @ 15, 20, etc...)
tonight I reloaded a series with different length for the first time. I will test at the rang tomorrow.
and Yes it is driving me crazy because I don't measure the ogive, I measure the tip and the number changes all the time. I'm thinking about buying a overall length gauge with bullet comparator..
Funny tonight I tried to use a small socket from my ratchet kit so I wouldn't measure the tip of the bullet for my AOL... wasn't reliable...
another question since I am on the subject of measuring max AOL... is there something wrong with measuring max AOL by simply feeding a case with a loose enough neck and a bullet, then closing the bolt ? this method is cheap and simple if you have the right neck tension ... what do you think ?
stef
Lone Hunter
Well-Known Member
Stef, Not trying to be a smart Alec but it is like anything,if you don' t have the proper tools to do a job then you are not going to do a good job. You have to make everything consistent. You will have to get some tools to do this. Don' t try to do it on the cheap, You will not like the results. Seat to ogive not the tip. Get good cases and make everything consistent. Good Luck on your search.
joe0121
Well-Known Member
Look into ocw load development. Deburr your flash holes. I highly recommend a Forster Co-AX press. I have had luck with heavy for caliber bullets with slowish burning powders.
I also recommend watching ammo smiths videos on youtube.
some people weight sort brass/bullets. I don't and can get 1/3 MOA accuracy. I shoot either Hornady Amax or Berger VLD's. I also HBN coat my bullets and with kreiger barrel I clean every 100 or so rounds.
I use WFT trimmers in a drill press well worth the 75 bucks.
I use once fired LC brass in my .308. I run it in a Forster nat match FL sizer. Trim it with the wft. Give it a "light" neck turn. De burr my flash holes. This gets me 3/4 MOA out of my Stevens. Probably better but I have a SWFA 10X scope and prefer much higher power for shooting groups.
My 300 WM I use win brass. Neck size and run into my belted magnum body die from larry willis.
Find ever reloading book you can. Buy every reloading manual you can get your hands on.
I also recommend watching ammo smiths videos on youtube.
some people weight sort brass/bullets. I don't and can get 1/3 MOA accuracy. I shoot either Hornady Amax or Berger VLD's. I also HBN coat my bullets and with kreiger barrel I clean every 100 or so rounds.
I use WFT trimmers in a drill press well worth the 75 bucks.
I use once fired LC brass in my .308. I run it in a Forster nat match FL sizer. Trim it with the wft. Give it a "light" neck turn. De burr my flash holes. This gets me 3/4 MOA out of my Stevens. Probably better but I have a SWFA 10X scope and prefer much higher power for shooting groups.
My 300 WM I use win brass. Neck size and run into my belted magnum body die from larry willis.
Find ever reloading book you can. Buy every reloading manual you can get your hands on.
jasent
Well-Known Member
Hand Loading for Long Range 1: Brass Prep
this helped me alot read all his reloading steps
A concentricity gage will help alot,straight rounds shoot straighter.
this helped me alot read all his reloading steps
A concentricity gage will help alot,straight rounds shoot straighter.
The loose neck and closing the bolt will work but you need the comparator to measure from the ogive to be consistent. Don't let it frustrate you as you are close to getting it put together. Same lot brass will get a lot of your problems put down and some consistent lenght will take care of some more.
If you are not under 1 moa after you get the brass uniform and the lenght consistent and the charge weight consistent with a few increments at and backing away from the lands I would start looking at your rifle or your shooting form.
If you are not under 1 moa after you get the brass uniform and the lenght consistent and the charge weight consistent with a few increments at and backing away from the lands I would start looking at your rifle or your shooting form.
More to the point about measuring the lands is it doesn't really matter if you know exactly where the lands are but it does matter if you can keep lenght to ogive consistent. If you find a load that shoots good then the only thing that matters is if you can duplicate it. How far it is off the lands is immaterial if the load shoots. The lands are just a reference point.
T3-OleMan
Well-Known Member
Also, if you change any item in your load CLEAN the barrel. Most important is the bullets. The composition of the jackets and or solid Barnes & GMXs will be different and you will not get the truth. Don't think brass change would require a cleaning but don't mix types and or shot counts!
Finally, don't change but ONE thing at a time.
Good luck.
Finally, don't change but ONE thing at a time.
Good luck.
7stw
Well-Known Member
Also, if you change any item in your load CLEAN the barrel. Most important is the bullets. The composition of the jackets and or solid Barnes & GMXs will be different and you will not get the truth. Don't think brass change would require a cleaning but don't mix types and or shot counts!
Finally, don't change but ONE thing at a time.
Good luck.
This is a good thread chase, and a lot of good info here to pick from, and learn by. Sometimes the fix is accidental, so you have to be aware of subtle changes. There are a few things in " my " process that to me, have been contributors to my accuracy standards. One tool that I use on EVERY piece of brass I own is a primer pocket Uniformer. You simply can not believe how inconsistent the primer pockets are, in mass produced brass, and even the premium brass is close to perfect, but not perfect. I have found pockets to be off square, as viewed when the cutter starts cutting. It may skip at first, until it bottoms out. Also, the cutter SQUARES the bottom of the pocket, which in turn provides a proper seat for the anvil in the primer. Sinclair has a great tool for this! Inexpensive, but priceless rewards. The key words to this game are CONSISTENCY!!!!!
One last thing to check, is runout. Runout alone has spoiled many shooters dreams of guilt edge accuracy, with everything else being the best there is. A dial indicator, and a bearing cradle is all you need. Most runout problems are a product of the resizing stage. But first you have to see where you stand with that before you go on the hunt for the cure.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
My big two thinga for accuracy are bullets and bullets. The bullet liking the barrel is 90% of the game.
A lot of the extra things we do can help to shave a bit off the group size but the bullet is king and always will be.
I fired a bullet known to be liked in one on my '06 rifles years ago with three different primers and three different brands of brass at the same time( same group) with the same powder charge and bullet loaded to the same depth and it shot sub moa.
I've mixed brass brands before and the ammo still shot moa. I've mixed round counts on brass and shot brass with cracked necks(with virtually zero neck tension) and the ammo still shot moa. At one time I didn't have trimmer pilots for a couple of calibers so I didn't trim the brass 'till it got to long for the chamber; it still shot moa as long as it fit. I've shot filthy brass before I had a tumbler; it still shot moa.
I probably ruffled some feathers here but a lot of what reloaders do is really make work. As long as your barrel likes the bullet and you are pushing it rather consistantly most rifles will shoot **** well if there is nothing mechanically wrong with the rifle. I don't make it a practice to be sloppy with my handloads but at times the $$$ haven't been there and if I wanted to shoot I had to play the game with what I had.
The biggest problems we have are often the ones we bring unto ourselves, such as not sizing the brass enough to fit the chamber without binding (neck sizing is good for this), using tough to stabilize bullets instead of easy to stabilize flat base bullets, and loading to long to give the bullet a good jump to the rifling and then wondering why you are having trouble with erratic accuracy and pressure( especially true with terribly overbore rounds).
Just a bit of food for thought.
P.S. -- I FL size all ammo, use flat base bullets to over 700 yards on critters, rarely do any primer pocket prep. unless the pocket is shallow, do NOT weigh my brass, do NOT use match primers, and do NOT even own a concentricity guage.
I DO use a bullet the rifle likes with a proper powder for good fill and velocity pushing it. I do weigh my powder charges. I do seat my primers uniformly and make sure they are all below flush the same depth. I do use the same brand of brass( at the same firing count when possible)- same brand on primers too. I do make sure my brass fits my chamber well with a couple of thou. of headspace only. I do use a good sand bag rest while shooting; mechanical rests are usually garbage as they have a lot of play in the adjustments.
Lefty
A lot of the extra things we do can help to shave a bit off the group size but the bullet is king and always will be.
I fired a bullet known to be liked in one on my '06 rifles years ago with three different primers and three different brands of brass at the same time( same group) with the same powder charge and bullet loaded to the same depth and it shot sub moa.
I've mixed brass brands before and the ammo still shot moa. I've mixed round counts on brass and shot brass with cracked necks(with virtually zero neck tension) and the ammo still shot moa. At one time I didn't have trimmer pilots for a couple of calibers so I didn't trim the brass 'till it got to long for the chamber; it still shot moa as long as it fit. I've shot filthy brass before I had a tumbler; it still shot moa.
I probably ruffled some feathers here but a lot of what reloaders do is really make work. As long as your barrel likes the bullet and you are pushing it rather consistantly most rifles will shoot **** well if there is nothing mechanically wrong with the rifle. I don't make it a practice to be sloppy with my handloads but at times the $$$ haven't been there and if I wanted to shoot I had to play the game with what I had.
The biggest problems we have are often the ones we bring unto ourselves, such as not sizing the brass enough to fit the chamber without binding (neck sizing is good for this), using tough to stabilize bullets instead of easy to stabilize flat base bullets, and loading to long to give the bullet a good jump to the rifling and then wondering why you are having trouble with erratic accuracy and pressure( especially true with terribly overbore rounds).
Just a bit of food for thought.
P.S. -- I FL size all ammo, use flat base bullets to over 700 yards on critters, rarely do any primer pocket prep. unless the pocket is shallow, do NOT weigh my brass, do NOT use match primers, and do NOT even own a concentricity guage.
I DO use a bullet the rifle likes with a proper powder for good fill and velocity pushing it. I do weigh my powder charges. I do seat my primers uniformly and make sure they are all below flush the same depth. I do use the same brand of brass( at the same firing count when possible)- same brand on primers too
. I do make sure my brass fits my chamber well with a couple of thou. of headspace only. I do use a good sand bag rest while shooting; mechanical rests are usually garbage as they have a lot of play in the adjustments. Lefty
