Target hybrid for hunting. Yes

[lancetkenyon]

Are the 200, 200.20x, 208, and 220 's as effective?

200.20X are wicked!

 

[vancewalker007]

7mm 180gr Hybrid from a 7LRM @ 2900'ish fps. Hybrids crush them in certain offerings. However, you couldn't pay me to hunt with a 6.5mm 140 hybrid.



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Had the same experience on a Coues buck a few years ago. Same exact bullet and cartridge but had them set up at 3008 fps. At 690 yards it left a softball size exit wound, about 2193fps and 1923ftlbs. Absolutely Devastating, no other words.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have personally used numerous Hybrids for hunting, all with outstanding results.

6mm 105 Hyb
.257 135 LR Hyb
6.5mm 130 OTM (AR Hyb)
6.5mm 140 Hyb
6.5mm 144 LR Hyb
7mm 180 Hyb
7mm 184 Hyb
.308 200.20X Hyb
.308 215 Hyb
.308 230 Hyb

 

[ENGUNEER]

Yeah, my apologies if I misread that.

As far as the vapor trails and the oil… I've seen Hammers and others produce the vapor trails even when all oil removed. What is occurring is literally just water vapor in the air condensing as the bullet flies through the air. That's why you also sometimes do not see the trails with Hammers even when the oil hasn't been removed, because they were shot when/where there wasn't sufficient moisture in the air.

It's also my theory (until proven) that the reason Hammers tend to be more pronounced with this is due to all the drive bands they have that disrupt the airflow and produce the condensing vapor.

It's similar to when a fighter jet pulls a maneuver and disrupts the airflow and creates vapor off the leading or trailing edges of the wings (depending on angle of attack).

@orkan has a thread where he talked about the affects on group sizes he got with the Hammers he was running with and then without the oil. It only makes sense any liquid on the bullet would have an effect on stability, yawing, etc of the bullet as it's spinning and flying towards the target. Of course the oils will end up being flung out of the bullet as it flies due to the centrifugal forces and airflow over the bullet, but it would be gone pretty quick.

Since there is a lot of discussion about the vapor trail here, I will write a quick note about it. There sometimes may be a vapor trail due to condensing water vapor but there is always a big effect that happens as the air travels through the oblique shock wave caused by the bullet. As this happens, the atmospheric air is compressed and the index of refraction of the air changes. This refraction change causes the bullet to look like a flying lens which distorts the light passing through it. That will be seen whether there is condensation or not.

 

[Bud LaRoche]

I have personally used numerous Hybrids for hunting, all with outstanding results.

6mm 105 Hyb
.257 135 LR Hyb
6.5mm 130 OTM (AR Hyb)
6.5mm 140 Hyb
6.5mm 144 LR Hyb
7mm 180 Hyb
7mm 184 Hyb
.308 200.20X Hyb
.308 215 Hyb
.308 230 Hyb

Hoping to harvest one with my 25creed 135 LRHT soon

 

[orkan]

was considering the 140 Elite Hunter for hunting.

Had two 140 hybrids pencil through on whitetail does. 140 elite hunter is good to go. Great bullet.


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[lancetkenyon]

Hoping to harvest one with my 25creed 135 LRHT soon

Used this bullet in my 25SST @ 875 yards last year on my pronghorn. Be confident.

 

[Petey308]

Since there is a lot of discussion about the vapor trail here, I will write a quick note about it. There sometimes may be a vapor trail due to condensing water vapor but there is always a big effect that happens as the air travels through the oblique shock wave caused by the bullet. As this happens, the atmospheric air is compressed and the index of refraction of the air changes. This refraction change causes the bullet to look like a flying lens which distorts the light passing through it. That will be seen whether there is condensation or not.

Correct. I think what you're describing is what's more commonly referred to as "bullet trace" and any quite the same as a vapor trail. These things seem to get confuse and misrepresented a lot.

I appreciate your comment.

 

[Petey308]

Have you cut any 220 bergers in half to see the difference?

Yes. Every hybrid so far has been the same, just size changes, proportionately.

 

[Beluebow]

Have you cut any 220 bergers in half to see the difference?

The only thing I would be mindful about with the 220gr Hybrids....they are pointed. Great for BC consistency but maybe not so much for hunting situations.

 

[Petey308]

The only thing I would be mindful about with the 220gr Hybrids....they are pointed. Great for BC consistency but maybe not so much for hunting situations.

In my original post in this thread, I mentioned for the pointed versions I would keep it at a minimum of 1600fps, and the non-pointed versions you could go down to 1400fps. Yes, the pointed versions do give you the added risk of not opening up at lower impact velocities, but that's where that large cavity comes into play and really helps. If it wasn't for that the appointed versions would likely not expand very well, if at all. For example, a pointed SMK would likely really struggle to produce reliable expansion, particularly at low impact velocities, because they don't have as large of a cavity.

Either way pointed bullets are a concern regarding reliable expansion so it's good to bring it up and consider it.

 

[Barbourcreek]

One word-- hammer

we have tried them and they dont work for us at long range, bullet base goes deep and 4 shrapnel goes into some vitals. worked fine to about 1800 fps left on impact, good bullet at medium ranges 700 or so prefer begers for Longrange

 

[fordy]

I'm talking about the tip being driven into itself, buckling and deforming, and creating a more blunt surface that continues to allow a chain reaction and compounding effect and thus produces excellent and reliable expansion.

No, the newer hybrid designs have proven not to need any meplat widening or drilling of the openings.

The VLDs experienced a change in how the jackets were drawn and swaged to the cores and made the material in the ogive and tip thicker than the rest of the jacket. That created a lot of unreliability with expansion and widening or drilling the openings did/does help with those.

Perhaps the Bergers you had issues with were VLDs? The Sierra SMK and a few other similar designs from other manufacturers also tend to have reliable expansion issues without widening or drilling the openings in certain calibers. The TMK or other tipped versions was the fix for that for me.

The Berger hybrid designs have proven to expand very reliably and consistently though without a need to mess with the tips/meplats at all, which is great.

Hope that answers your questions.

Thanks for the reply

It's amazing that some of the most knowledgeable posters on the whole internet are respectfully discussing bullet design and results. I love this site and this thread.

It is pretty good when they do that
Cheers

 

[cohunt]

we have tried them and they dont work for us at long range, bullet base goes deep and 4 shrapnel goes into some vitals. worked fine to about 1800 fps left on impact, good bullet at medium ranges 700 or so prefer begers for Longrange

I was referring to the vapor trail comment that was posted not the lr hunting part-- the guys at hammer have stated they only recommend them down to 1800fps ( just like you found)-- so no, for a lrh bullet they are not recommended . Each bullet has its strengths and weaknesses-- I don't limit myself to just one brand or line of bullets.

Have you tested the 200gr hybrid bullets at all? The 215's are great BUT darn near unubtanium right now. I'm about out of 215s and am considering the 200, 200.20x, and 208s to replace the 215s unless berger hits the market with a plethora of 215s soon