Talk me out of epoxy scope rings

[theflyonthewall]

Personally......I think all of this is being overcomplicated.

Why not mount the last set of rings that you lapped. Then instead of lapping compound, SCORE the inside of the rings with medium-course sandpaper carefully wrapped around your lapping bar? I'm not sure of what grit to use. Use your own judgement. But what your NEEDING is more grip from the rings. There's only two ways to do that in my mind.

One is to use a great deal more clamping force to hold the scope. Which would likely be damaging to the scope tube, so that's out.

The other way is to add more friction to the surface where the rings meet the scope tube. By precisely scoring the rings and leaving the sharp edges intact, the rings would "bite" the scope tube much better.

 

[Loner]

You really don't understand lapping bars or clamping forces. If you try your method
you will quickly find out it won't work, fact is you can't even do it. Try it and you'll be
able to explain why real fast. Secondly we are holding the scope with friction not grooves
like an air hose fitting. The purpose is to not damage the scope.

 

[theflyonthewall]

You really don't understand lapping bars or clamping forces. If you try your method
you will quickly find out it won't work, fact is you can't even do it. Try it and you'll be
able to explain why real fast. Secondly we are holding the scope with friction not grooves
like an air hose fitting. The purpose is to not damage the scope.

First....apparently you totally misunderstood what I was trying to convey. Maybe that's my fault for not being more clear.

What I was saying was referring to the use of the lapping bar and TURNING it in the rings, not simply sliding it forward and backward.

Secondly, who said anything about grooves? I was illustrating one way to increase friction buy abrading the surface of the rings perpendicular to the direction in which the scope was slipping. That's a frictional increase no matter how you slice it.

Third....I find it highly unnecessary and arrogant of you to ASSUME that someone knows "nothing about clamping forces"simply because you seem to disagree. Clamping force is nothing more than equally applied pressure at a given measure.....in the use of threaded fasteners of a given stretch factor, the measure that we use in this country is ft/lbs of torque. Therefore if one cannot use fasteners that can safely apply greater torque load to the object that one is applying pressure to, then one cannot increase the torque load.

In our example of a rifle scope being mounted, we know that there is only "so much" torque that can safely be applied before we damage the scope tube. Therefore simply applying more clamping force (that I apparently know nothing about) is not an option.

So what's left? Adding more friction.

 

[Loner]

Sorry about the way I wrote that. Not very diplomatic of me. I apologize.

 

[bigngreen]

Did I miss what this rifle weights and what brake is on it!

 

[theflyonthewall]

Sorry about the way I wrote that. Not very diplomatic of me. I apologize.

No biggie. I suggest we both have a beer .

 

[Loner]

No biggie. I suggest we both have a beer .

A beer? na,

I got the first round.

 

[Jon A]

USE NO aluminum...threads pull out and small parts distort when tightened down tight

While this can certainly be the case with light-duty, poorly designed or cheap aluminum rings, rest assured it is not the case with all aluminum rings. With my rings the large 8-32 Grade 8 screws will snap off before you do any damage to the threads (takes around 100 in-lbs). Steel rings which are thinner in critical sections can certainly deform more when the screws are torqued down--but keep in mind ALL rings will deform to some extent under the clamping force, which is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of lapping quality rings.

One is to use a great deal more clamping force to hold the scope. Which would likely be damaging to the scope tube, so that's out.

Not necessarily. If you spread out the clamping force over a larger area, by making the rings wider, you can increase clamping force (and thus total force of friction) without increasing the pressure (and thus local stresses) on the scope so there is no increased chance of damage to the tube but the scope is held much more securely.

 

[theflyonthewall]

........................

Not necessarily. If you spread out the clamping force over a larger area, by making the rings wider, you can increase clamping force (and thus total force of friction) without increasing the pressure (and thus local stresses) on the scope so there is no increased chance of damage to the tube but the scope is held much more securely.

Good point. Much wider rings would stop the problem in it's tracks.

 

[lightwind]

And Jon A makes some of the best wide aluminum rings on the planet. I strongly suggest you take a look at his product. I have been migrating all of my mounts and rings to his. Take a look at the surface area his rings have and compare them to the Leupold Mark 4 rings (two sets of which I have replaced). His comment about being able to snap the screws off without damaging the mount was about me. My torque wrench locked and I applied way too much force to the screw and snapped it right off. I sent the mount back to Jon and he happily replaced the screws (and didn't even make too much fun of my being the first to have the problem). His mounts and rings are super-heavy-duty. If they can't hold your scope I will be astonished. The precision manufacturering completely negates any need for lapping.

 

[bowhunthard88]

Now this is a cheap fix, and I personally have not had to use it, and I'm sure some guys will argue with me on this point... It worked great on my buddy's one gun and some "factory mounted" scopes come with this.

Put a single wrap of masking tape around the scope, and tighten it down. Make sure the tape doesn't overlap (of course!). You can trim the tape beforehand so it doesn't stick out from underneath the rings. The pressure seems to force the adhesive thru the tape also (non-sticky side) so both sides are slightly sticky. It comes off relatively easy, with acetone (or GooGone, etc.). You could also put the tape inside the rings (that's the way most "factory" mounted scopes use). Your scope will NOT move!

Other than that, buy a set of Murphy Precision rings and base...

Good luck.

 

[Lycan]

Had this issue when mounting a heavy scope on a 7STW. Broke two sets of Leopould STD rings....Burris Signatures wouldn't hold her.......

I ended up lapping Burris Zee rings and then adding this:

Scotchkote(TM) Electrical Coating, 4 fl oz, distributed by R.S. Hughes - Industrial Distributor - Tapes, Adhesives, Abrasives, Safety, and Electronic Products

Held it perfectly for years without shift without damage to scope or finish.

Oh, and you can buy it at Lowes or your local hardware.

 

[joe0121]

Just an educated guess and some speculation. The higher end rings may simply use better materials and are also machined to retain a perfect fit once at proper torque. The lower end parts may not be retaining a good fit once clamped down.

I use cheapo weaver rings and mounts and have zero issue with zero shift or scope coming loose on a .300 WM. I think a quality micrometer torque wrench and some blue loctite might solve the ops issue.

 

[joe0121]

While this can certainly be the case with light-duty, poorly designed or cheap aluminum rings, rest assured it is not the case with all aluminum rings. With my rings the large 8-32 Grade 8 screws will snap off before you do any damage to the threads (takes around 100 in-lbs). Steel rings which are thinner in critical sections can certainly deform more when the screws are torqued down--but keep in mind ALL rings will deform to some extent under the clamping force, which is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of lapping quality rings.


Not necessarily. If you spread out the clamping force over a larger area, by making the rings wider, you can increase clamping force (and thus total force of friction) without increasing the pressure (and thus local stresses) on the scope so there is no increased chance of damage to the tube but the scope is held much more securely.

Cant wait to save up the cash for a set of your rings. Love my weaver rings for sure but your are the cats meow.