Staring out

[Kmccord]

To all the custom rifle builders, I am looking into setting up a shop to build my own Custom Rifles for personal use and after awhile get into building for the public. What would you recommend for reading material for starting out? I am mainly looking at building bolt rifles for hunting and long range shooting, plus modify my own factory bolt rifles for better performance. It will be a year or two before I get setup, but wanted to find some great literature I can use for understanding the concepts of making a match grade type rifle. I would also like literature on how to setup your lathe correctly. Any and all information would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Georgiashooter]

South bend "How to run a lathe". Great book for setting up and general info on running your machine.
Also check out tubalcain on YouTube for tips on specific operations on lathe.
Manson reamers sells a good book by John L. Hinnant for precision rifle barrel fitting. Also look for videos on you tube by known smiths.
Read as much literature on the subjects of action truing, barrel fitting, beddding a rifle as you can and find the methods that you are comfortable and successful with. Lots of good advice on here in the gunsmithing section as well. You can spend days reading old threads.

Get your machine set up and practice on scrap, and practice some more. You will know when you're ready to cut a barrel. Setup is the key, as well as taking your time and being meticulous down to the last detail. Hope this helps. Happy smithing.

 

[Kmccord]

Thanks for the advice, I have been itching to do this for a long time, and figured paying a custom builder 4k + for a rifle, which I have already, might as well learn to do it myself and build my own. Plus when I am ready to re-barrel my custom rifle, I will have knowledge to do so.

 

[Hired Gun]

On the average $3200 to $7500 build the gunsmith labor runs from $700 to $1000 if he does action truing and the coating. If he is marking up the parts that can total up to about another $80. A bit more for optics. Most rifles it's basically just chambering, bedding and coating. The majority of build costs are the parts. I figure I could have about 65 full customs built in labor costs for what I have in tooling alone to build a full rifle.

As a smith the slightest mistake comes straight out of your pocket. Fluted barrels are pushing $500 and reamers $180 to $300 with a gauge. One slip and a rolled chip or some chatter can wreck a barrel or chip a reamer. Now to build that buddy a rifle now costs you a couple hundred to build it for him. Then your friends and family all expect a deal where you either make nothing or end up paying for part of their build. Any time your working for free takes away from time you could be making money. If you are wealthy enough to give it away then rifle building is a great hobby.

If you want to go pro then go to school and learn the trade. This gives you the basics but the real art of the precision rifle has to be figured out on your own and that takes time and money. Many draw the wrong conclusion from a couple rigs that seemed to work okay and then close their mind to pursuing perfection in every aspect of form and function.

As far as literature to see what is involved my favorite book on the subject is Rifle Accuracy Facts by Harold R. Vaughn. I believe it's a must read for anyone concerned with rifle accuracy. Learn that book inside and out to see what works and what doesn't. This guy was way ahead of his time. I also like to read military manuals, briefs and articles on accuracy. From air guns to the 16" ship mounted guns it's all pertinent in one way or another. For home based education the AGI actual gunsmithing course is very good. The general public AGI videos are not nearly as informative as the actual course materials. Another source of good information is The Gordy Gritters rifle building videos. If you have a community college nearby with machining classes they are a great way to learn the basics of cutting tools and finding your way around a lathe. The last place to look for really good info is not on internet forums or facebook pages.

 

[Georgiashooter]

+1 on hired guns advice to take some machining classes. I was fortunate enough to be taught by someone who has built rifles for the last 55 years so that education was invaluable and free. You will keep learning as time goes on.

When I suggest to gather info from this forum, nothing wrong with getting tips on what has or hasn't worked for some of the pros on here. You need to gather as much good info as possible and figure out the best methods to get the end results you want.

Also a good way to get machine time before you ever cut a barrel is to build as much of the tooling you possibly can, thereby cutting some cost out and really learning how the required tooling works.

Good luck
Richard

 

[Kmccord]

I checked the local Junior College in my town, they only offer a CNC lathe class and it is a nine month course. I will need to grab those books and DVD'S to see how difficult it is to setup the lathe, etc. Cutting threads to attach the receiver, I wondered if the Lathe has a setting to cut them per the size and TPI, I have not seen it done before and did not know if the lathe has a gear to run the starting​ point to stopping point or if that is done by hand. Also on threading a muzzle brake, especially one that is directional out the sides, how do you set the threads to stop precisely at the point the brake is in perfect horizontal alignment. Those are some of the things that I am curious about, I found some You tube vids on cutting a chamber and setting up the lathe to perform that function. I have a good year before I will start setting up a shop, I had looked at the Grizzly Gunsmith lathes and would get one with a DRO, but I am wondering what size would one need if you are building rifles that could have a barrel that is 30 inches?

 

[Georgiashooter]

For a 30" barrel you will want at least a 36" lathe. That is distance between centers. A 40" would give you more room if you needed to run that 30" with a muzzle brake to contour, blend, or if you desire to chamber in the steady rest for some reason.

As far as timing the muzzle brake or a flute on a barrel, you have to determine the distance one turn of the threaded piece will advance. E.G., 5/8-24 TPI, one turn will advance the muzzle brake .0416". That is found by dividing 1 by TPI. So, 1\24= .0416". 16 TPI is .0625" in one turn. However, all that will come in time as you learn the basic machining operations.

A good place to discuss some of that and some guys with lots of wisdom is the hobby machinist forum. It's readily apparent who knows what they're talking about over there and they're eager to steer beginners in the right direction.

One other consideration is bore diameter of the lathe you plan to buy. I bought from precision Matthews, and have been pleased with my lathe. I have the PM1236, which is a China built machine but goes through stringent quality checks by the guys at PM. You can talk to the owner, Matt, and he will steer you in the right direction and sell you the machine you need, not what will make him most money necessarily. He has almost any size lathe imaginable and some really good mills as well.

Hope some of this helps
Richard

 

[Hired Gun]

This sounds kind of impulsive. Taking up rifle building without knowing a thing about it. May I ask how old you are?

Have you checked with your city or county to see if this activity is permitted on your property? If you rent you will need your landlords permission as well. Is your location secure from burglary. Gunshops are prime targets. A large secure safe is a must. Plan on at least $2500 there and preferably about $6000. Any time you leave all guns and actions need to be locked up.

You should be able to answer these and all those machining questions you just asked right off the top of your head long before you go lathe shopping.

You would be wise to check into liability insurance and check with your homeowners insurance if gunsmithing is going to be okay in your residence. An unreported risk in the house can get a big claim like a house fire that started in the shop denied. You will also need to consult an attorney and a CPA on the best way to structure your business.

 

[Kmccord]

This sounds kind of impulsive. Taking up rifle building without knowing a thing about it. May I ask how old you are?

Have you checked with your city or county to see if this activity is permitted on your property? If you rent you will need your landlords permission as well. Is your location secure from burglary. Gunshops are prime targets. A large secure safe is a must. Plan on at least $2500 there and preferably about $6000. Any time you leave all guns and actions need to be locked up.

You should be able to answer these and all those machining questions you just asked right off the top of your head long before you go lathe shopping.

You would be wise to check into liability insurance and check with your homeowners insurance if gunsmithing is going to be okay in your residence. An unreported risk in the house can get a big claim like a house fire that started in the shop denied. You will also need to consult an attorney and a CPA on the best way to structure your business.

Not impulsive at all, like I said something I have been thinking about for a long time. I don't have to worry about landlords, I own my own property, insurance, for myself would not be a problem, like I said this is mainly for myself and maybe later on for the public. As for age of myself, hmm are you implying I am childish asking questions to people who are in the business? I have gun safes and of course I would not leave my actions barrel etc out in the open, I for one will need a FFL to purchase actions from the manufacturer so I do realize book keeping and records that need to be maintained as well. A lot of what you stated is common sense, the only real questions I have that requires some real experience is the lathe and setting it up correctly. Like I stated in the beginning, I am looking at getting started a year or so from now, hence the reason for asking questions on literature to purchase and read.

 

[parshal]

I'd find a quality lathe in your price range that will work for gunsmithing. Figure out the power requirements and whether you want to work through the headstock or between centers. The bed on mine is 48" and I run near the end of the bed with 27" barrels. Any longer and I'd have a tough time.

I didn't know much about machining and used a small lathe for making bamboo fly rods so I gained some understanding. I basically taught myself on the larger lathe once I bought it. I went to a scrap metal place and grabbed a bunch of stuff and practice threading and cutting. Unless you take a course or you have a mentor you'll have to learn on the job.

The suggestion to make tools for yourself is a good one. I bought a table mill and made a couple things for my lathe and I learned a lot about both pieces of machinery in the process.

 

[Danny1788]

I am self taught as well, does that I mean I know everything ABSOLUETLY not. I took bits and pieces from all over the place and came up with a procedure that works for me and my lathe. I did the same read many books and bought DVDs. If you P.M me ill send you the books and dvds I have ( just trying to help a guy out)

At first I didn't really think about making barrels or guns. I taught myself the importance of threading to a shoulder and dialing pieces of round stock in the four jaw chuck. I learned a lot from making my tooling like action truing jig and bolt truing jigs.




I don't consider myself a smith, there is plenty that I just buy parts for or have someone else do. Barreling and truing an action are only part of the job some times. But knowing what makes a rifle accurate and how to "setup" your part for machining is the most important part. Knowing your lathe and how to use it is the first step. Buy at a minimum a 12x36 lathe with a gearbox for threading and a 1.5" spindle bore.

I only chamber through the head stock, so I made both the spiders for my lathe and can chamber an 18" barrel because my head stock is so short.

You will have many questions and need to realize what your getting into. The lathe is honestly the cheap part. I have about twice as much into tooling and other stuff that I built and made for barreling a rifle.