Speed lock firing pin assemblies

[NesikaChad]

This brings up a good point and another reason why I don't care for these things much.

Chances are, the parts are made to spec. Mass produced actions experience a variance in tolerances. We know this. Maybe the drill went a touch deep on your bolt or maybe the shoulder on the pin is a hair back, or maybe both and you have a tolerance stack.

My question now is how many of these are floating around out there that were just dropped in and ran on the assumption everything is right? Too much striker protrusion and you start piercing primers with any kind of aggressive load. Too little and the gun suddenly develops elevation stringing because the primer strikes are causing weak and inconsistent ignition. Acts much like a bad spring.

Grrrrrr.

Avoid IMO.

 

[J E Custom]

Another good post and a lot of discussion and opinions.

I do use them but not on all rifles.

Like anything to do with gunsmithing if they are not properly installed
or not to spec they can cause problems. Some times the factory bolt
may not be perfict as Chad pointed out and "MUST" be properly installed
or problems may occur.

The only time I recommend thier use is on very light rifles where movement
after the trigger is pulled is most likley,on heavy rifles this is not a problem
unless the shooter has a bad case of target panic and nothing will cure this
but lots of practice.

Also as stated some bolt shrouds move with the fireing pin and may not allow
much improvement in lock time. So it would probably not be an improvement.

Improving lock time is best suited to hunters/shooters with very little experience
in position,follow through and shooting skills, Light weight rifles and bolt guns that
only the sear moves with the pin.

If I can improve a .300" group to .250" by using a light weight fireing pin I WILL
.050" Doesent sound like much at 100yrds but at 1000 yrds it is.

They are definitely not the magic bullet but they can improve an already good
shooting rifle .( IF INSTALLED PROPERLY ).

Just my 2 cents
J E CUSTOM

 

[jonoMT]

J E, what's your take on my speedlock firing pin protruding like this?

I'd say in retrospect that I could have just as well not ordered this for some of the reasons you mentioned. I have a fairly heavy rifle and don't flinch much. Oh well.

 

[J E Custom]

jonoMT

I would definitely send it back for a new one, and if it came back
the same then I would assume the bolt was drilled to deep and fitted
with a shorter firing pin .

A while back a poster had a PTG bolt that was not drilled deep enough,
The point is everything that goes into a fire arm should be checked and
installed properly before firing it.

During assembly factorys have parts of different dimensions so all
they have to do is change a part if it is not correct with out having
to discard or re'machine a major part.

Sorry you have a problem with one of them ,I never have but there is
allways a first time.

I have seen this many times on recoil lugs (they were different thicknesses
but headspace was correct.)

J E CUSTOM

 

[jmason]

deleted.......

 

[jmason]

Let me ask you guys another question. How do the custom firing pin assemblies compare to the one I purchased or plain old OEM equipment? I mean when you buy it complete firing pin, spring, shroud, ect. one drop in unit not just the spring and or pin. When you buy a complete unit is there still the chance of the pin protruding too far like the one pictured in a n earlier post? Are the pins the same weight as a stock pin? Are the springs exerting the same sprung weight?

There's got to be a differance between the ones in custom guns compared to a standard rifle bought at a sporting goods store, and the one I have. How do all 3 compare?

Ok, OK I'll stop with all the questions..............for now anyway.........

 

[NesikaChad]

Again, the determining factor on pin protrusion is the depth of the hole in the bolt and the location of the shoulder on the striker in relation to the tip. The rest of the components are just along for the ride.

 

[jmason]

Ok I understand that now. If those relationships are equal with all involved. How does the complete firing pin assembly from a high dollar bench gun compare to the factory one in my rem 700, and the aftermarket speed lock assembly. This is assuming that the bench gun is based on a 700 type action. I'm sorry for being relentless with my questions but I really want to understand what sets the High dollar bench gun assmbly apart from the aftermarket speed lock. I just reread you earlier post and follow on the material used in making them but please humor me here. I guess where I'm most lost is if the speed lock has a heavier (stronger) spring and a lighter pin than the factory set up in a model 700. The firing pin im the factory model gets to the primer slower but hits the primer with 10 # of force(just an example). The speed lock gets to the primer faster and hits the primer with 10 # of force(again example). I'm thinking thats the way it works anyway. how can the speedlock pin bounce with the additional strength of the the spring behind it? If I'm thinking these work as in my example all matters of force are equal one just hits the primer quicker right?

 

[NesikaChad]

Bench gun guys using Nesika went through this phase where they would use progressively weaker and weaker striker springs. The intention was to reduce the disturbance when the sear let go of the striker and to reduce the effort it took to cock the gun. The idea being it would disturb it in the bag less.

It does work I guess, but its a fine line and does not apply to all types of guns. Keep in mind that the BR stuff typically runs out to only 2-3 hundred yards. The cartridges used (that win anyways) are the PPC/BR types with big powder columns and small bullets. Small deviations in velocity don't equate to much on paper since the speed is so high anyways. Stretch your legs a bit and then you start to see interesting changes. Vertical strings, etc.

As far as bouncing goes. Ever frame up a wall? How is that when you are nailing a stud to a sill plate the two boards sometimes separate from one another after you give it that last good thump with a hammer?

Ok, back on track. 99.9% of the time you are WAY better off using a striker that has some mass in conjunction with a high energy spring. One of the chrome/silicon types. I think that spring should be changed once a year. It's cheap insurance in my book. Ensure the pin travels freely in the bolt and make sure the spring doesn't bind up. Give yourself about .250"-260" of pin travel and protrusion of around .050"-.055".

Do this and don't give it another thought. Obsessing over lock time is silly. The M-14 and M-16 prove this. Swinging hammers on rifles used in offhand competition at 200 yards? Are we nuts? No, it works and the guns hammer tacks. They shoot great at 600 too so something else must be happening. (It's the shooter. . .)

The RPA Quadlock has one of the fastest lock times out there. it doesn't use a spring (per say) it uses belvelle washers stacked up. the speed of the striker is phenomenal. It's also a pain in the neck to cycle the action and the trigger pull is very wild because of all the sear loading. Put a normal spring in it and it settles right down, has much nicer bolt manipulation, and still shoots great.

Attempting to build a field rifle like bench guns is a recipe for disappointment. Bench guns are very specialized and application specific. These same guys using the lighter springs to shoot small groups in the summer soon discovered that in cold weather the guns went to hell. The grease/lube got gummy and the primers need a really good hard whack to get things cooking. when the guns did go off, the groups just sucked eggs because ignition was so inconsistent. Normal springs fixed this.

Just little things that make big differences. . .

Hope this helped.

 

[jmason]

Obsessing over lock time is silly.

I think we may have exposed my problem!!

I suppose I figured this could be one of those things that offered some great aid to me. I used one in a sendero and I saw no improvment. I did not however put it through any extensive paces. I'm gonna hang onto it as it does fit correctly in my bolt, and the pin ( since you boys learned me how to check) has no protrusion issues. If nothing else maybe I'll test it some more later this year.

Thanks for explaining all this stuff, I really appreciate it!!

 

[jonoMT]

NesikaChad, thanks for the additional info. Out of curiosity, I measured the protrusion of both pins:

Rem: .051"
Tubbs: .064"

Another thing that jibes with J E Custom's statement that manufacturers keep odd-sized parts around is that I've noticed you can't buy a replacement Remington firing pin (at least not through the suppliers I checked). I suppose they really do custom fit the less expensive parts. I wish Tubbs had mentioned the possibility in bolt variations. Looks like I threw $60 away. Oh well, that's the only gun-related purchase I've ever regretted...other than not telling my wife about one of my rifles. So she went out and bought a new piano without telling me.

Lesson learned: just get out and shoot, then shoot some more.

 

[NesikaChad]

I wouldn't necessarily say the Tubbs pin is junk.

Just pull it out of the bolt, remove the cocking piece and shroud, and then chuck it up in a drill and sand .005"-.009" off the nose of the pin while still maintaining the same contour. Check your work often; just drop the pin in the bore and seat it firmly with your finger, then take a measurement.

15 minute job, easy.

Good luck