Sometimes you learn more from mistakes

[BrentM]

This particular rifle is a yote getter and it doesn't get far from home. Pretty much a non issue for me.

That said weird stuff happens at the most inopportune times. Having the ability to correct those hiccups on the fly is invaluable.

It doesn't take a bullet in the lands to make one pull and dump powder....an unburnt kernel of powder or a piece of foreign debris can do the same.

I'm sure we could all write a book on the variables that can happen. Knowingly going to the field on a elk hunt of a life time for example is not a time to spin the roulette wheel and see how your luck plays out. That is what this page and post are really about. The why and what if. A yote rifle that is close to the truck or home vs a back country hunt that a person invested 10k into. Each of us has to decide our own risk. I filled an action full of dirt on a wolf hunt due to an incident on the mountain. It changed a few things for me as I learned from that mistake. In the end, the take away is why jam at all? IF the answer is its the only way, then so be it, it's your risk and choice, carry on. If coming on this page and discussing the process anyone should expect the consensus to be don't jam, find a different bullet, test differently, etc. For me, just my opinion after being burned already, I will never jam for any reason. I have been loading for 40 years and only jammed those early design bergers because that is what the pro's did. I didn't really know any better at the time and hadn't spent the time learning proper seating depth techniques.

 

[A A Ron]

I tested the Hornady at .004 off, .010 off, and .020 off and hard jammed. Made no meaurable difference. It shot great at any depth.

I tested the Barnes at everything from .010 jam out to .130. Jam is the only location it shot.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

My 223Ai has never seen anything but a hard jam with 75gr Amax's and a stout load of Varget..... 1000 rounds in it still hammers and extracts loaded rounds. It has been hard on yotes and steel out to 1k.Haven't stuck a bullet yet....Lucky??....more than likely yes.

If it shoots and you're comfortable with it continue on.

Wonder if it would eject with a primer failure. Bet the primer strike would stick the bullet in the lands and you would be done till you have a rod to knock out the stuck bullet.

 

[Beluebow]

Wonder if it would eject with a primer failure. Bet the primer strike would stick the bullet in the lands and you would be done till you have a rod to knock out the stuck bullet.

If the primer fails how does it stick a bullet?

If you go back and read my posts, I've never advocated for being in the lands for a hunting rifle....Did I do it yes...did I say I probably got lucky yes.

 

[BrentM]

If the primer fails how does it stick a bullet?

If you go back and read my posts, I've never advocated for being in the lands for a hunting rifle....Did I do it yes...did I say I probably got lucky yes.

Meaning the strike force on the primer can drive the entire cartridge forward, driving the bullet into the lands firmer. Think of it like tapping the back of the case while in the chamber. That little tap might create the additional force on the bullet to create the issue during extraction.

 

[DoneNOut]

I seat the bullet .001-.002 off the lands. Same insurance policy I give with shoulder bump.

Has there been mention of "In the lands" vs "Jam"? I've never had a bullet get pulled from case in the lands. I can see jam being a problem the way I understand jam.

 

[Beluebow]

Meaning the strike force on the primer can drive the entire cartridge forward, driving the bullet into the lands firmer. Think of it like tapping the back of the case while in the chamber. That little tap might create the additional force on the bullet to create the issue during extraction.

That happens every time you pull the trigger...

I'm sure in your 40years of reloading you have probably seen more bullets stuck due to no powder in the case than failed primers.

 

[BrentM]

That happens every time you pull the trigger...

I'm sure in your 40years of reloading you have probably seen more bullets stuck due to no powder in the case than failed primers.

You are missing the point entirely. If the primer works and there is powder then there is an explosion and the bullet is no longer stuck in the lands, it exits the muzzle and goes down range. At least one would hope.

If the primer fails, impact to the case....... bullet is driven in the lands further.

If the primer doesn't fail, no powder, then the bullet is driven in the lands further. In this example, I have seen this often, with bullets not being jammed they usually extract. There is one guy, who for some reason, at every match would have a few missing a charge. I have no clue what distracts him during reloading but normally his bullets would extract or could be dislodged with a butt stroke to his forehead.

 

[trubkir17]

I used to load touching the lands. Better accuracy being the motive. I once had a primer failure on a very large muley buck that resulted in a stuck bullet. By the time I figured out what was going on and took my son's rifle from him, the buck was gone. I too could eject a loaded round without issue. The force of the primer strike stuck the bullet. Never again will I load a hunting rifle to touch the lands.

The school of hard knocks is an unrelenting institution, but the lessons usually stick.

 

[memtb]

That happens every time you pull the trigger...

I'm sure in your 40years of reloading you have probably seen more bullets stuck due to no powder in the case than failed primers.

I've made a few dumb moves in my 55 years of reloading…..but, my "only" stuck bullet was from total lack of understanding of the mechanics/design of my new (to me) but quite old Ideal Powder dispenser when loading 38 Specials with Bullseye powder. I sure do wish that it came with a manual or maybe a friend to give me a little training!

Just for the record…..I would never jam/cram/touch the bullets into the lands in a rifle to be used for hunting. I would gladly sacrifice a minuscule degree of accuracy in my hunting rifle in exchange for reliability! That said, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a very accurate load can be developed without bullet contact!

If the rifle is to be used for match shooting, long range steel, ect., all bets are off…..do whatever "blows your skirt up"!

Just my unsolicited opinion for what it's worth! memtb

 

[DoneNOut]

With .002 neck tension/interference fit, and using the sharpie method, I've never stuck bullets in the rifling while conducting the test. I see the ring or marks the lands are making on the bullet, but they don't get stuck. Either dudes are really jamming the bullets stupid deep or have .001 and less NT.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

If the primer fails how does it stick a bullet?

If you go back and read my posts, I've never advocated for being in the lands for a hunting rifle....Did I do it yes...did I say I probably got lucky yes.

I had it happen to me. I didn't get that very big muley.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I tested the seating depths .004, .010. and .020. (+ or - .001) There is no statistically valid difference in group sizes at any seating depth with the 140 ELDM in my rifle with 42.2 gr of H4350. There all sub moa. The good news is I don't need to run this bullet jammed. I'm pretty happy this bullet is so easy in this rifle with that load density.

The Barns 145 however is different. Jammed .010 it shot sub half moa. Traditional seating depths all the way out it shot bad. The Barnes bullet and load need something that jam gives it.

Before I discovered Hammer, I shot Barnes 127 grained in a 6.5RUMLN. My accuracy load had a .180" jump! The zero is in the correct place.

 

[Old Rooster]

Being the guy who had a bullet pull from the case on a hunt, I'll never do it again. Powder everywhere, bullet stuck, it was a rough deal.

You do you but if it were me, I'd take my best velocity node, jump the bullet 10, 30, 60 etc until I found a good jump and micro tune from there.

Been there done that as well.Ruined that days hunt.
The closest to the lands I ever get is .010 and adjust out from there but NEVER jam.
Just my opinion and I'm a nobody.