Some concerns about a reputable gunsmith assessments regarding my rifle

[simone]

I brought my rifle for bedding to a reputate gunsmith here in my country (he is a top tier precision shooter, he won several international competitions with rifles made by his gunshop), he also produces some competition precision rifles and I can see he is a very nice guy, really passionate about his job.

I just had to get my rifle bedded into the new stock i bought but some other things popped up and i am not sure they are worth to be spent money for so i ask here

1) talley (maker of bases) said to limit the torque value for their 2 piece aluminum bases into the action to 25 in lbs. Bergara (maker of the rifle) said to torque base screws at 30 lbs so i decided to torque the bases at 30 lbs with some blue 243 loctite. The gunsmith said the bases can be torqued to 60 in lbs and, worst case scenario, he will break a screw head and he will replace it with a higher strenght one. He also suggested loctite is not necessary and said he never use it. I am a bit skeptical on this.

2) he noticed the bolt jumping when dry fired on my rifle and said he will have to take a little material off of a part of the bolt assembly because this could make every trigger pull different from the other.. again, i didn't understand and looked into it on the forum. I found out that some people say it is normal for a rem 700 clone action, someone said there could be a timing issue but almost everyone agreed that this jump is normal on an empty chamber. My smith didn't try to chamber anything and just said he will remove a little bit of material from a specific area and in 10 minutes this will be fixed.

He is a very well known gunsmith and i trust him more than i trust myself of course but i would like to understand better what my rifle could go through.

Worst case scenario i will ask him to just bed the action to the stock and after that i will try the rifle and see if It works well. Tomorrow i will also give a call to Bergara to understand what is their take on this bolt jump. My other b14 rifle does the same thing when dry fired with an empty chamber (and to a significantly less extent but also when dry fired with a fired case in the chamber) and it is a 0.3 MOA rifle with a couple factory loads so i wouldn't mess with it for sure.

Thanks!!

 

[KyCarl]

You are paying for his experience and knowledge why not listen? If not do it yourself.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Tell him you want to take "baby steps". Just do a bedding job, and see how it shoots after that. Might be all you need to make it a tack-driver. Doing only the bedding job will reduce the overall costs and possibly the turn around time.

 

[simone]

You are paying for his experience and knowledge why not listen? If not do it yourself.

Of course i listen. Carefully. On the other hand, especially in firearms industry, i have been disappointed by renowned characters so many times that i always apply a little critical thought on these kind of things.

For example. I have NEVER had any issue following torque specs and spelling loctite, why should i triple torque values and not using loctite?

And about the removing material from the action, that's something i would make it do to my rifle only if necessary and I wouls like to understand, that's why i wrote here.

Thanks for the reply anyway

 

[Weaver93]

Not sure if it is your reason, but here is one thing that will cause it. I think it is much more dramatic on an empty chamber.

 

[simone]

Tell him you want to take "baby steps". Just do a bedding job, and see how it shoots after that. Might be all you need to make it a tack-driver. Doing only the bedding job will reduce the overall costs and possibly the turn around time.

The turn around time is very small already, more or less one week. I just took him the rifle yesterday. As far as the cost, that's a good point and I was already thinking about that but not the main point. The main point is that in the firearms world it's so difficult to find two professionals with the same opinion on something

I have heard it all:
-Lapping so important otherwise your scope will blow up/lapping totally useless/lapping detrimental
-loctite very important, even recommended by manufacturers/loctite totally useless
-this brand is great/this brand sucks

I could go ahead for hours
So at the end i utilize a minimalistic approach: use the thing and if it works, that's it. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. And always try to understand as much as you can on things to have your own opinion or at least to be able to evaluate where you wanna put the line and stop looking for perfection, which of course doesn't exist

I am here for this

 

[simone]

Not sure if it is your reason, but here is one thing that will cause it. I think it is much more dramatic on an empty chamber.

So this guy is saying that this "issue" can affect accuracy because of vibration trasmission? What does it mean?

 

[Weaver93]

So this guy is saying that this "issue" can affect accuracy because of vibration trasmission? What does it mean?

I think he is saying the induced vibration effects the overall harmonics of the rifle. Keep in mind we are talking about extremes here. I think the effect bolt movement on an empty chamber has on a hunting rifle will be minimal at best. I would bed it and see. I am not a gunsmith so your mileage may vary.

 

[Laelkhunter]

As far as using Loctite, I was always told to use it for the bases after thoroughly cleaning the threads (on the receiver and base screws). It prevents them from vibrating loose, but also acts like a thread lubricant somewhat as long as it is wet, when mounting the base which allows for the screws to torque more uniformly than screwing them in dry. Might be B.S. but I have always done it that way.

 

[simone]

Yeah his statements about loctite and torque values sounded really absurd to me. I mean, 60 in lbs is A LOT for base screws and also why not to use loctite? You are not gonna remove the bases so why should it hurt to use it? It's also anti corrosive. I really don't get it.

As far as removing stuff from the action, it seems like most (if not every) remington 700 style action has some movement of the bolt when dry firing, it seems like it's pretty normal to me or at least it is not something affecting accuracy so much. But on this i could be wrong, i am not so experienced.

 

[Hugnot]

60-inch pounds can break 6-48 screws leaving a busted screw inside the tapped receiver hole. This often requires a screw retractor for removal if screw busted off flush with receiver. 8-40 screws can take more torque. Worst case is that screw will be busted off flush with receiver leaving nothing above receiver to grip & twist.

Blue Loctite works great on receiver screws, while wet it provides lubrication for uniform screw tension. The Loctite when cured prevents screws from backing out & provides a barrier between dissimilar metals like aluminum & steel. Gently heat for removal.

Having a jumping bolt handle is normal when dryfiring. A 25 pound or greater force spring snaps the firing pin and attached striker assembly forward quickly & forcefully. The whole works, firing pin, striker, & spring all having considerable mass (weight) come to rest abruptly with no primer to absorb energy. This can cause the bolt handle to jiggle with minor spring twisting, no big deal. Having 2 springs, each wound in a different direction would null any spring rotation but have no effect on firing pin impact. Periodic inspection looking for spring scuffing on the inside of bolt is a good idea. Do the dual wound springs have greater diameters?

I would consider doing the work myself after reading specs & directions. A visit to a local hardware store should work. Save $$$.

 

[simone]

60-inch pounds can break 6-48 screws leaving a busted screw inside the tapped receiver hole. This often requires a screw retractor for removal if screw busted off flush with receiver. 8-40 screws can take more torque. Worst case is that screw will be busted off flush with receiver leaving nothing above receiver to grip & twist.

Blue Loctite works great on receiver screws, while wet it provides lubrication for uniform screw tension. The Loctite when cured prevents screws from backing out & provides a barrier between dissimilar metals like aluminum & steel. Gently heat for removal.

Having a jumping bolt handle is normal when dryfiring. A 25 pound or greater force spring snaps the firing pin and attached striker assembly forward quickly & forcefully. The whole works, firing pin, striker, & spring all having considerable mass (weight) come to rest abruptly with no primer to absorb energy. This causes bolt handle to jiggle, no big deal.

I would consider doing the work myself after reading specs & directions. A visit to a local hardware store should work. Save $$$.

Thanks. That's mostly what i thought but with a ton of specific information and knowledge behind. So do you suggest to make the rifle bedded by this smith (he is the most expert on thwse kind of stock, which are pretty rare and have not been imported in my country in large numbers) and to the rest for myself and leave the bolt jumping happily for the rest of its life?

 

[Laelkhunter]

Yes

 

[Laelkhunter]

Just a worthless statement, but on the PD, I was a Counter-Sniper on our SWAT Team. We used Remington 700 PSS rifles. Nothing special, and NO extra springs to prevent "bolt jump". Using Federal GMM 168, I was able to shoot a 5 shot group at 100 yards that measured .192 inches. I'm not sure how much I could have improved that with special double springs, but they weren't an option at the time.