Solution for elk hunting delema - 338 Lapua?

[ishootkittens]

As I said before. I am a fan of the .338lm and I root on anyone who wants to tackle it! But this guy is over 50 and hes looking for a gun with little recoil and muzzle blast. .338's are usually pretty heavy and I dont think he wants to lug that thing around when he's hiking all over the Rockies. And if he found a .338 that doesnt way much then the recoil is going to be much stiffer. I just dont see a reason why he wouldnt have much success with a .300 (wsm, win, weatherby, or even a -06) with the 210-220gr bullets. I get what youre saying though Broz. If I had a .338lm and could afford ammo for it. I would be the same way. I am biased towards the .30s because i have never shot anything with em that didnt drop straight down.

 

[jrsolocam]

Whats good for the goose isnt always good for the gander --

A 300 gr at 338L velocities will no doubt drop an elk as good as anything short of a 750 A-Max from a .50 Cal. I stayed up too late one night talking to a guide in Idaho last year who said that he'd seen 338-378 Wby's literally knock bulls *** over tea kettle.

I'll agree with some of the others here that for the fellow who started thread, one of the 7 or 300 mags is a great place to start.

 

[SRHeer]

The responses have been great! thanks and everyone's comments factor into the equation - Yes we will both be 60 this year so we are not spring chickens anymore but as long as I can lug my fire stick around I want to get out and enjoy the outdoors with hunting!

I would like to ask has anyone ever hunted (harvested) elk with a 284AI or 7WSM or 7WinMag and wished they had a larger caliber - how far and why?

Has anyone ever hunted (harvested) elk with a 3006, 300WSM, 300WinMag and wished they had a larger caliber - how far and why?

If I can effectively drop elk with the higher impact 7s - that's great in that I think it would be a viable solution and one that would tend to not be as expensive in that I may be able to get by without a recoil and or noise suppressor.

I probably would also be able to use a 300 but I am pretty sure I will need both a recoil and noise suppressor which I am not opposed to - does anyone know of a good recoil and noise suppressor for 300s?

But I am considering if I go to the cost of adding good suppression then why not go with the 338 Lapua? It would be some heavier - yes and costly to fire with ammo yes and bigger is not always better but just how many shoots would I be taking? Hopefully one and if one shot works better with 338 then great - I realize shot placement always trumps bore displacement!

Maybe the solution is to have two rifles one for LRH ( 400-800yrds ) and another for toting around the country side where I can get closer up but I will only be getting one rifle for now and this is in consideration for my wife to use where she is not as mobile as I am - so we would not be carrying very far - and maybe needing to shoot long range.

What about bullets? Are these Berger VLD hunting bullets all that they are cracked up to be - if they do shock the game more so than say Federal hunting ammo then I could better justify the 7s and get an all in one rifle that can be carried a lot as well as shoot long range effectively and have a one shot/knock them down fire arm - The Berger bullets fragment loosing a lot of their weight - has anyone ever bit down on a fragment in game meat that was shot with a Berger and come away with a funny look on their face or swallowed meat with fragment?

Thanks for all your input and I wish everyone great hunting for this year!!!

 

[Broz]

I have shot elk with 270's, 7mm's, 300's, 340's and 338's. I have seen it where the 7mm and smaller could require a second shot. A couple needed tracked down but that was due to a bad choice of bullet for the distance. That is all I will say about that.

I feel the 300 win is better than the 7mm and smaller chamberings for elk. That is why we shoot a 300 win. now. We are elk hunters. That said the 7mm down to 270 and even 25-06 will do fine on elk with good placement. But I feel the 300 will do it better and for sure farther as a normal rule. Why?? Bigger (heavier) bullets.

Any of these rifles (7mm, 300, 338) I would want a recoil deduction of some sort. A good side discharge muzzle brake is what I prefer and foam plugs in my ears for the field. It only takes a second to put them in, although we seldom use the ear plugs out in the open.

I use the Bergers and have for years. We have never tracked an animal with them. They have covered our butts on occasion with shots placed back too far. That is where the fragmenting bullets shine. You will want to use the larger offerings for the choosen caliber. We shoot 210's 215's or 230's from the 300's. and 180's from the 7mm's. If you are up close they may not exit due to the velocity and massive expansion. But rest assured if you are close to the vitals area all vitals will be destroyed. As far as getting fragments in your food. NO, never, not even once. We cut out that area and toss it away. Just like we do with blood shot meat from the impact of any bullet. I do not feel we loose any more meat with a Berger than we would with any bullet. I fell velocity is much harder on meat than fragments. Plus I use what I feel kills fastest. No meat loss from a bullet will ever be as large as loosing the entire animal because he ran off with your bullet.

I think you might want to read this thread I wrote. In it you will see where I tested the 215 Bergers from my 300 win last season. There are pictures of entrance holes, exit holes, and internal damage. Also there are distances, shot placements, and impact velocities. We took 19 big game animals last fall all with this rifle and bullet. Some small as antelope, some as close as 200 yards some as far as 1285 yards and several elk too.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/cmparing-berger-210-vld-215-hybrid-88657/

Please notice I am 54 years young, as is my wife. Also note we took young hunters as young as 13 for their first bull. We also took out 3 hunters that were from 62 to 73 years young. Not one complained of recoil or noise. It is a long thread but I think it will be worth your while to read. It contains answers to some of your question that you will be able to see and draw a conclusion for yourself..

Jeff

 

[sp6x6]

Read all the posts and op is leaning toward large 338.Most of the the guys I grew up with shot 340WBYS.My personal 338 NM is 7-2 oz. bare,8-12 oz dressed.It was made as a packer and I have no problem shooting it into 6'' at 1000.The 300 gr.bullet is a hammer,no doubt.I have a brake and put one on my 340,after 10 years. I shot 400 rnds threw my 340 first spring I had it gophers and rocks,just getting the feel.I think the 338 is the ultimate elk caliber if you dont mind a larger platform and want to shoot them at LR.

 

[angus-5024]

If you want a straight answer to "what kills elk the best at long range". The answer is .338, if you can shoot it.
If you can shoot it- do it. .338's are plain awsome at killing stuff. If you are willing to lug around something heavy, and are going suppresed anyway, the .338 is deffinatley the ticket.
If you want something under 10 lbs or unbraked, the 7 WSM will be the answer. I had thought that you wanted something "not too heavy" hence my recomendation for the 7 WSM.
If you want the in between (say 10-12 lbs with a muzzle break), then the .30 cals will probably be the answer.

you will see that alot of guys on here that are serious about Long range hunting have turned to the .338's or are in the process. There is a reason for that. There are also a lot of guys on here that dont like recoil and heavy guns, they dont shoot .338's. theres a reason for that too.

I would love to be able to recommend on the suppresors, but they are illegal in Canada.

 

[jrsolocam]

Uff da, I'm glad its friday. 338 will kill better than 284 or 308 driven at same velocity. Bigger hole. No argument out of me on that. Thinking that the new Sierra driven from a 378 Wby might be the ticket. With a suppressor...

There are so many variables when it comes to killing. Angle of shot, point of actual impact, bullet construction, impact velocity, impact velocity vs velocities recommended by manufacturer, bore diameter, bla bla bla.

Haven't even talked about how we kill them yet, rifle and optics. This is more of a personal choice based on what we like, where you hit em and what you hit them with is the final answer in burning your tag.

If you can't legally and ethically kill a bull elk with a 300 WM maybe you should call it a day.

The exception being people who have a real passion for LRH and are dedicated enough to practice and try different load combinations. It just bothers me when folks go buy a superultramag and put a lasertaser scope on it and start blasting game at distances they have no business even trying.

One of my bosses at work bought a M700 300 RUM, paid someone $500 to mount a Huskema and zero it for him. He never shot it or checked it, he just took off to MT elk hunting. That just doesnt sit well with me.

 

[dogdinger]

Having been in on killing over 75 elk, with rifle, pistol, ML and bow, either pulling the trigger or right beside whoever pulled it ,I feel i can speak with some authority.

First lets get something straight here. I went back and re-read you post and what you are asking here has nothing to do with caliber choice, it has to do with bullet placement. Elk do not "drop" unles a bullet enters the brain, breaks the spinal column or hits close enough to it to shock the central nervous system and cause the muscles in the outer extremities to quit working thereby causing the animal to "drop" , fall or otherwise go tits up. Pick whatever caliber you like and shoot a 5-700 lb animal through the ribs and he will be dead on his feet, but he will still be on his feet for sometime.
Another thing that has not been mentioned here in all this talk of what caliber "drops" elk the best is the fact that you are new to hunting, and planning to take your wife, so BEWARE, killing aint pretty! Animails tend to want to stay alive, and they kick , flop, grunt, bawl, bleed and generally make an ugly mess in the dying process. You had better be sure your wife, and yourself, are ready for this.
Another thing to think about is, what happens after that lovely creature has been relegated to so much dead meat, and how to take care of it . You still have to gut it , quarter it, and carry it to what ever mode of transportation you are useing, then get it home and care for it before it gets to be wrapped in those pretty little packages that you thaw out and cook.
Dont get me wrong.....I am glad to welcome both you and your wife to the hunting fraternity, but i want you to know what you are getting into. AJ

 

[SRHeer]

Ok - so since shot placement trumps caliber and bullet size we need to get something that we can practice with to build a good base for shooting in the field. I would really like to get a 6.5X284 but after researching a bullet/loads I think I like the 140VLD 6.5mmX284 Berger Hunting round the most but they are out of stock everywhere! - I think that would be a great round to be able to practice with and develope some confidence for as far as long range hunting goes - any ideas or coments??? Thanks everyone!!!

 

[SRHeer]

Dogdinger - where do you place your shots when hunting elk?

 

[Greyfox]

Ok - so since shot placement trumps caliber and bullet size we need to get something that we can practice with to build a good base for shooting in the field. I would really like to get a 6.5X284 but after researching a bullet/loads I think I like the 140VLD 6.5mmX284 Berger Hunting round the most but they are out of stock everywhere! - I think that would be a great round to be able to practice with and develope some confidence for as far as long range hunting goes - any ideas or coments??? Thanks everyone!!!

My long range rigs are a 338 Lapua and a couple of 6.5x284's. The 6.5x284 is great long range round. I had the same idea years back and became immediately addicted. But, you really need to own and shoot one at 1000+ yards for a while to get the full appreciation for how truly accurate, and confidence building this round is. I shoot the 140 Berger VLD's at 2975 FPS. Never had any problem getting bullets. Just bought a few hundred 140 Hunting VLD Bergers from Sinclairs.

 

[dogdinger]

SR...... it all depends on the situation. If i am hunting public land, which i do mostly, and not in a situation where i can patiently wait for that "perfect" shot, i shoot them in the biggest widest spot where i am most likely to hit lungs, heart or a combination of both. If he is still on his feet, i shoot him again. There are to many variables out there to assume that one bullet will do the job every time. typically i am a meat hunter and hate shooting elk in spots that waste a bunch of meat so i typically stay away from the shoulder. if i feel that there is time and i have a good solid rest, head shots are not out of the question.
When hunting, there are always many factors to consider before pulling the trigger. One big consideration is also where that bullet will go if it is a pass through shot. A lot of elk hunters will start shooting at elk that are herded up, and when that bull doesnt fall right away, keep banging away, with the result that you end up with three or four dead elk when the dust settles. Try not to get caught up in that situation.

You will get a lot of advise here, use what works for you, but my best advise is : whatever gun choice you make, do lots of shooting with it under many different scenarios, not just off the bench....know your limitations ......have fun. AJ

 

[IdahoCTD]

Having been in on killing over 75 elk, with rifle, pistol, ML and bow, either pulling the trigger or right beside whoever pulled it ,I feel i can speak with some authority.

First lets get something straight here. I went back and re-read you post and what you are asking here has nothing to do with caliber choice, it has to do with bullet placement. Elk do not "drop" unles a bullet enters the brain, breaks the spinal column or hits close enough to it to shock the central nervous system and cause the muscles in the outer extremities to quit working thereby causing the animal to "drop" , fall or otherwise go tits up. Pick whatever caliber you like and shoot a 5-700 lb animal through the ribs and he will be dead on his feet, but he will still be on his feet for sometime.
Another thing that has not been mentioned here in all this talk of what caliber "drops" elk the best is the fact that you are new to hunting, and planning to take your wife, so BEWARE, killing aint pretty! Animails tend to want to stay alive, and they kick , flop, grunt, bawl, bleed and generally make an ugly mess in the dying process. You had better be sure your wife, and yourself, are ready for this.
Another thing to think about is, what happens after that lovely creature has been relegated to so much dead meat, and how to take care of it . You still have to gut it , quarter it, and carry it to what ever mode of transportation you are useing, then get it home and care for it before it gets to be wrapped in those pretty little packages that you thaw out and cook.
Dont get me wrong.....I am glad to welcome both you and your wife to the hunting fraternity, but i want you to know what you are getting into. AJ

I'm going to argue with some of this. I've collapsed elk with my .375-.358STA and .416 Rem. with both frontal shots and shots through the lungs without hitting the brain/CNS/or major bone. The saying "there is no replacement for displacement" definitely holds true with killing elk. I've killed north of 30 elk myself and have easily witnessed that many more killed by others. I used a 7STW, .30-.338, .308 Baer, .30-8mm mag, .358STA, .375-.358STA, and .416 Rem. in addition to .50 and .54 caliber muzzleloaders. For short range (under 500yds) it's hard to beat the .375's and .416's for shear knock down and muzzleloaders can be quite impressive with good bullets at close range.

 

[HoytFlinger]

Even if I consider a 300WSM I would want to get a blast or noise suppressor - who makes a good muzzle break/suppressor combo? I don't care about the looks or length - it would be nice to be able to remove and install when needed or not - right now I am leaning on buying a Savage 11/111 LRH - and I like the balistics of the 7WSM for 140-160wt bullets which are great for antelope and deer and maybe elk - don't really know if the 300 bullets are that much better. How much better are the 300 bullets in 180 to 200 range compared to the 140 - 160s of 7mm for one shot elk kills? - is there that much difference when it comes to LRH for elk?

A few years ago I too had a Tika T3 300WSM and it was just too much - too loud and kicked too much - Chad my son and the best shot of all couldn't handle - so I sold it but I may consider buying another and putting a muzzle break and noise suppressor on it to be able to effectivly LRH elk! My son Chad is now in the Air Force and he shot his second elk with a 7-08 at 450yrds but it was a head shot and of course dropped it - very impressive! It make me feel better to drop game with one shot because I really dont want them to suffer! I don't want to shoot if I am going to wound and not kill right away!

Surefire, but they are expensive. Would be cheaper and just as good to go with a TBAC suppressor or so I am told.