Sleeping bags

Nuc Worker,
I was a Notrdic Ski Patroller for 10 years and an alpine (downhill) ski patroller for another 6 years. As a Nordic patroller I was a "Senior Patroller" rank (top ranking) and a winter survival instructor for two ARMY ROTC units for 3 years. So I know a bit about winter camping. Done it in snow trenches, snow caves and tents and was comfortable in all.

The "sleep naked" advice is total ********. I'll be glad to take that person on a winter camping trip and let them sleep naked with the choice of adding clothing if they are cold. Two or three nights will tell the story. ;o)

Remember, "Insulation is insulation", whether that of a shelter, sleeping bag or clothes. It all adds up.


1.3 SEASON->Usually 30 F. or 20 F. ratings With heavy polyester long johns & a fleece balaclava in my 20 F. bag I can go to 10 F. with my REI FLASH Insulated air mattress or Thermarest Trail Pro self-inflating mat. With puffy down jacket and pants over the long johns I can go to 0 F. Done it.

2. WINTER->should be rated to at least -20 F. With a good winter mattress like Thermsrest Neo-Air X-Therm or two summer mattresses a true -20 F. bag will be good to its rated temperature if you wear heavy long johns. With more puffy insulating clothing as described above I'm sure it would be good to -30 F. at least.

YES, get in a bag naked and you will heat the bag up faster because you are losing heat faster. But, IF YOU NEED IT, you will want clothing. In fact you need at least light long johns to keep the bag clean from you body oils.
So let's say I sleep naked in my 20 F. bag in 30 F. weather. Yes, I'll likely be OK but not as comfortable as if I had light long johns on. Bag linings DO get uncomfortably cool.

And you need "sleep socks" the thickness depending on temperatures you intend to sleep in. And a balaclava B/C your head will get out of the hood during the night.

And for winter nights in 0 F. and lower you will want a nose cover. Sounds crazy but a cold nose is no fun all night and you will unconsciously bury your head in your bag to warm it and breathe moisture into your bag, a no-no.

In the morning: After getting out of the bag and dressed take the bag outside, weather permitting. Compress (do not roll!) the bag to squeeze the moist air out of it as much as possible to keep that moisture from freezing in the bag and melting that night, dampening and compromising the insulation, any insulation.

->Never, ever roll a bag for storage or any other reason. This shifts insulation to the foot permanently or it tears down baffles.
->Always store a sleeping bag totally non-compressed to retain insulation loft and thus warmth.

Eric B.

So take your military bags if you can carry them. Otherwise take just the warmest one and your insulative clothing. You can zip up your parka and put it over the foot of your bag for more warmth and to keep the bag from melting frost off the tent wall and wetting the bag.
PM me if you have more questions. LL Bean down bags are just about the best for the money if you are in the market for a new bag.
 
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For the record, I do not own a Kuiu bag nor have I ever used one.
What is your personal experience with the Kuiu bags?
The Kuiu bags are down filled, so they are pretty light weight. Which bags are you referring to with the same specs, that are significantly lighter?

I have zero experience with these bags. Just what I see on their website. I would never say they are bad bags; I bet they're quite nice. But I'd much rather purchase a Feathered Friends. Here is why:

Feathered Friends Merlin UL30 (Regular - 6' 0")
Price: $409
Fill: 950+ Goose Down
Fill weight: 11.5 oz
Finished weight: 22 oz

Kuiu Super Down 30
Price: $450
Fill: 865 Goose Down
Fill weight: 11.65 oz
Finished weight: 23.5 oz

Feathered Friends (FF) is actually considered a premium bag. In the ultralight backpacking and mountaineering world, they have earned a name. They have decades of experience building bags that keep people alive in nasty places. When you buy one of their bags, you're paying a premium for the absolute best performance. And yet the Kuiu bag is still more expensive even though the FF beats it. If you wanted to save $120+ and get a bag that is fairly close to the Kuiu in performance, you might check out the...

Marmot Hydrogen 30
Price: $330 (I am seeing it listed for $247 at Steep & Cheap)
Fill: 800 Goose Down
Fill weight: 10.9 oz
Finished weight: 23.3 oz

I guess at the end of the day I am a bit tired of items marketed toward hunters commanding a premium that I don't see matched anywhere else. To the point where it is crazy. If you bought a Kuiu bag, I bet it'd take fine care of you. But I also think that for the money you can do better. Or spend half the money and do just about as well. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.


 
I have zero experience with these bags. Just what I see on their website. I would never say they are bad bags; I bet they're quite nice. But I'd much rather purchase a Feathered Friends. Here is why:

Feathered Friends Merlin UL30 (Regular - 6' 0")
Price: $409
Fill: 950+ Goose Down
Fill weight: 11.5 oz
Finished weight: 22 oz

Kuiu Super Down 30
Price: $450
Fill: 865 Goose Down
Fill weight: 11.65 oz
Finished weight: 23.5 oz

Feathered Friends (FF) is actually considered a premium bag. In the ultralight backpacking and mountaineering world, they have earned a name. They have decades of experience building bags that keep people alive in nasty places. When you buy one of their bags, you're paying a premium for the absolute best performance. And yet the Kuiu bag is still more expensive even though the FF beats it. If you wanted to save $120+ and get a bag that is fairly close to the Kuiu in performance, you might check out the...

Marmot Hydrogen 30
Price: $330 (I am seeing it listed for $247 at Steep & Cheap)
Fill: 800 Goose Down
Fill weight: 10.9 oz
Finished weight: 23.3 oz

I guess at the end of the day I am a bit tired of items marketed toward hunters commanding a premium that I don't see matched anywhere else. To the point where it is crazy. If you bought a Kuiu bag, I bet it'd take fine care of you. But I also think that for the money you can do better. Or spend half the money and do just about as well. Just my thoughts for what they're worth.
Thanks for the information
 
The two premium down bag makers in the US are Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering. Even worldwide these makers are considered at the very top in quality.

I have had a Western Mountaineering Megalite bag for 6 years and it looks like the day I bought it. It was rated for 30 F. and it got me through a 24 F. night on the Pacific Crest Trail in good shape. But I sent it back to WM and had it "overfilled" with a few more ounces of down to make it a good 20 F. bag. I've used it down to 15 F. (with long johns) with no problems.

So look at both of those Made in USA brands.

Eric B.
 
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I going to throw this out there because I think its useful. There is a guy who is a bit of a curmudgeon but he's been doing bags for a long time and seems to know what he's talking about and he does some videos that go over various aspects of bags, insulation, etc. He does not deal in down since its ineffective when wet so if you are set on down his information will disappoint you. He provides bags for military, search and rescue and thankfully you and I. You can look at youtube to watch guys who put them in a bathtub to soak them in water then go sleep in them outside in approx freezing temps and do just fine. Anyway, the guy in question is called Wiggy. Go to wiggys.com and look over the bags. They are not light, and do not compact down like a down bag but man they are warm even when wet. I need to get one that is for warmer temps because the 0 degree bag is too much, which I never thought I'd say about a sleeping bag because I've been freezing my backside off in 20 degree down bags for years. I think a 20 degree wiggys will fit my bill.
 
Wiggy's is a British firm and their proprietary synthetic insulation is very good. It is used in clothing purchased by the British Ministry of Defence (sic).

But if I were too buy another sleeping bag with synthetic insulation it would be Climashield, which has proven to be more resilient to repeated compressions than any other insulation I'm aware of currently.

Howsomever... Being a geezer, I'm looking for two things in a sleeping bag:
1. lightest weight per CLO value
2. most compact per CLO value
The means a down bag with a good DWR treatment.

I had a -20 F. Mountain Hardware bag of Polarguard Delta for years but it was way too bulky and heavy compared to down. I could not, even with a compression sack, get it in the sleeping bag compartment of my 72 liter Dana Terraplane! Sold it to a guy in Minnesota where the Polar Vortex has lately been an annual visitor.

For longer trips in near to sub zero temperatures I'm sewing and seam sealing a silnylon VBL suit to keep my bag much drier. Making such a suit is relatively easy using a men's pajama pattern from a fabric shop. I went that route to make a winter camouflage suit.

Eric B.
 
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IMO and experience temp ratings are what you are going to stay alive in, not what you are gonna be happy in.

In my 19 degree bag i wear a down jacket if its teens.
 
Wiggy's is a British firm and their proprietary synthetic insulation is very good.
As far as I know this is a local CO firm but you are right, it is very good.

Another important point is bag construction. Most mainstream bags are made in China and quality is low even for expensive bags. There are a lot of shortcuts made in stitching and materials that make a lot of the common brands worthless. Sadly I own several but never again.
 
I just purchased a KUIU 0 degree bag for myself/wife. She gets it when we hunt together so I don't gotta hear the "I'm cold story," which will leave me in the old double military mummy bag. But when she's not around I'll be able to test her out. Picked it up used on here for half the price of a new one and it has minimal use. Deals are out there if you wait it out.
 
I just purchased a KUIU 0 degree bag for myself/wife. She gets it when we hunt together so I don't gotta hear the "I'm cold story," which will leave me in the old double military mummy bag. But when she's not around I'll be able to test her out. Picked it up used on here for half the price of a new one and it has minimal use. Deals are out there if you wait it out.

My wife and I both had Kuiu zero degree bags in the NWT during a Sept blizzard....4 nights of howling winds and snow, and we were both warm. The guide had a 15 degree bag (not Kuiu) and said he was cold
 
I'd be willing to bet the no pad is most of the problem. It's is amazing how much difference it makes. I often wake up cold and realize my pad has slid off my cot. I get it back on and go go back to sleep warm and cozy.

Next time take a pad but leave it off until you get cold then put it on and you will be amazed at the difference a pad makes.

I agree with this. The bag loses it's insulating ability underneath you with the loft compressed. I learned this the hard way on a field problem long ago sleeping in the bed of a 5 ton truck in zero degree weather.
 
I use a KUIU 30 degree bag. I pack a reactor liner to give me another 15 degrees then if it gets really cold I wear my down pants and jacket but usually take them back off during the night because that's too much. It was only down into the teens this year though. A good pad for insulation to combat heat loss due to loft compression is a must.
 
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