Sinclair mandrels

[308plinkerVT]

OK, my experience here.
Sinclair mandrels used to be more than just one per caliber, at least in 22 for 556 ammo neck tension tickiness (read Zedicker if you want more info there), I don't recall the special order process but it exists and the Zedicker sizes used to be a SO but on the shelf and quickly shipped. If you're loading those 223 for an AR decide before hand just how ticky you want to be, I enjoy ticky so I'm also kinda deep in the rabbit hole as well. Just out of the loop for a spell.
Dip the case neck in dry lube before running on the mandrel.
Pick up a dial indicator for case/ammo checking purposes after trying these methods. The term free float comes up here, sometimes you gotta experiment before you realize you might be having "straight" issues.
Rumor has it ""feel" when using" is the tangible issue with steel vs carbide. I just got my first carbide for 6.5, I'll try to remember to report my experience with it. I VLD chamfer, so I don't feel either will be remarkable besides visual signs honestly.
Honestly, grab Zedickers book and a Sinclair catalog. Enjoy the rabbit hole lol, but you honestly don't need to go past that for a while, you won't be able to use your ammo as an excuse at the range for some time.

 

[6pakzak]

I'm loading for a bolt mainly, I am loading for an AR but I think a .223 mandrel would be as light tension I would go on AR, although I am new to this, I have been annealing the brass for bolt gun after every firing but have noticed way less tension when seating them, been doing that cause Corrina said to anneal after every firing, runout has been great, using body die and LCD, was thinking of running mandrel after LCD which has mandrel at .2215, and I figure I will have to get bushing die next or for time being get smaller mandrel on LCD, so using a FL die with expander removed will size neck to far correct?

 

[308plinkerVT]

Collet die? After a body die? Sounds like extra brass working to me. I get it you're annealing but get on a process that works the brass minimally as possible each loading. for sure soon.

 

[6pakzak]

The body die doesn't touch the neck, I use it to bump shoulder back a little, lee collet die is only sizing neck so how is this working brass to much?

 

[308plinkerVT]

Adding the second mandrel on top of this. But I also quickly envisioned neck workings at all those steps at first too.

 

[SEGARE]

Tagging in

 

[6pakzak]

With bushing die looks like many guys size neck a little so they can expand with mandrel, if collet die sizes to .2215 with springback of .005 that would put me around .222 and mandrel is .223 so spring back brings to around .2225, this seems like not much brass working to me.

 

[6pakzak]

I'm not saying this is the best way, I'm not even sure if I should be annealing the brass Everytime, the body die and collet have greatly improved my runout, I'm usually at .001, if runout at neck is over .001 to start I can usually expect .002 runout but I am rarely getting more than that, before over that was the norm, I checked some bullets I made last year with only lee dies and was just using FL sizing die and adjusting to bump shoulder were I wanted, runout on 20 of 30 bullets was in .005 area, now only lee die I use is LCD, plus got the rebel press to replace lee press and that also improved runout greatly, I see myself getting a bushing die, but for now getting mandrel setup, just spent 160.00 on primers at Cabela's but they've been impossible to get around here and they just happened to have 1000 for 79.00 so kinda had to buy it since I'm running low.

 

[6pakzak]

I gotta say that I'm glad I put up this thread cause I feel I learned a lot, I was confused looking up these mandrels, but now I feel I know what I'm looking for, think I'm gonna go with 21st, learned a lot about brass and I think I know the way a bushing die works, Merry Christmas and thank you!

 

[CBH Australia]

I look at different ideas but this one might be going beyond what I will see the benefit of.

 

[cape cove]

I don't believe that the expander mandrels will do any better than the collet die as to run-out. You also work the neck less with the collet die.

 

[Mikecr]

So if I used a .224 mandrel that spring back of .0005 would be enough to hold bullet?

Yes. Its what you have anyway.
Go ahead and measure a loaded neck OD, pull the bullet and remeasure.

 

[Mikecr]

I don't believe that the expander mandrels will do any better than the collet die as to run-out. You also work the neck less with the collet die.

There is importance to pre-expansion that should also be considered.
Downsizing adds energy to brass. The brass will then seek lowest energy balance by springing back counter last action. Most at once, but continuing over time. So if last action is downsizing the brass springs back outward, and will continue to relieve itself over time. So if bullet seating after collet sizing does not upsize necks, then tension will decrease over time. You would need to excessively downsize, so that seating bullets function the same as an expander mandrel to prevent tension loss over time.
Most people already do this, but bullets are not hardened expanders.Mandrels are.
This is a pre-seating operation.

Mandrels also cause less runout than die buttons. They reduce runout further by pushing thickness variance outward, away from seating bullets.
This may or may not function as effectively as collet compression - for runout. But it's a sound method for us bushing users, who benefit from bushings, beyond mere runout.

 

[cape cove]

@Mikecr You are most certainly right. I never thought of the continuing spring back concept. I'll have to test this out. TKS