Siamese Mauser to 45-70

[35 Whelen]

A bolt 45-70 may look like a crazy thing to build and with the rifles and cartridges that are and have ben available for the last 60 to 70 years in many ways it is. But at the same time some of us like the history cartridge/rifle and what men of a certain time frame did to get the fire power they wanted and/or needed at an affordable price. Many of these men are the ones that made what we have today possible. I my self wouldn't mind having a bolt 45-70. No it is not a 458 Win. Mag., but yes it comes close. It also shows what that old round is capable off doing if chambered in the right rifle. And yes if you are going to do it you need to do the research and do it right. You can say any rifle cartridge combo is crazy and many down some one for the rifle/cartridge the are using, but the truth is there are many good rifles and good cartridges, there are many people, we all are different with different likes and dislikes. Lets all use and enjoy are firearms and help each other learn and improve are knowledge so we can do what we enjoy even better.

 

[nicholasjohn]

Nick, we all had rifles & shotguns in the window of the truck, knives in our pockets. We didn't even have to lock up the tools in shop class, or locks on our book lockers, it was a great time. I can say it was good old days, never would I have ever believed we would end up where we are today.

There was another 45-70, a 243. & the shop teacher built a .308. It was a great learning experience, we used the metal lathe, had to build the barrel vise, action wrench, learn how to headspace. Wood tools to inlet the stock, acraglass the barreled action into the stock, sand & finish stock. Drill & tap for scope mounts, great all-around learning project. Weaver K-4 scope as I remember my shop bill was $115.00. The shop teacher had the blueing vat & did the blueing.

Yes, those were good ol' days, Siggy. You're making me drool right now with all the stuff you did in high school. I'm not boo-hooing, but I didn't really enjoy my school days - with neat metal shop classes like you had. That would have been right up my alley, and I would have LOVED to learn all that neat stuff in high school. Alas, my parents sent me to a fancy, all-guys Catholic prep school, where the wicked old nuns smacked me bald-headed and drove me half crazy - while you were building rifles.

My outlet for that stress generator was to go home after school, grab the old model 12, and let Ginger ( the cutest little Brittany you ever saw ) out of the pen and go chase some fezzinks. If my uncle had gotten home before I did, Ginger would already be gone - so I'd go out solo and chase bunny-rabbits. Something was going to feel the sting of an ounce of #6's, by God. Busting cottontails out of brush piles was the perfect way to keep an unruly teenager out of trouble, and I only had to walk about ten minutes from home to be right in the middle of a grown-over old farm that was loaded with animals.

We didn't have any deer close to home in those days, but small game was EVERYWHERE. Deer hunting required a short road-trip up into the Alleghenies, where we had a hunting camp with a bunch of guys. That was great fun, but it was a bit of a production. The small game hunting right out the back door was really my bread & butter, though. We also tormented the hell out of the woodchucks in the fields all summer, even after I had started working a regular job ( which happened around age fourteen.) I remember keeping the old .308 on the rack in the job truck ( well away from the cement-finishing tools ) and popping a few 'chucks on the way home from the job site on many occasions.

Most people would think that working as a kid would get in the way of hunting, but it wasn't that way at all. The jobs took me to places where I stumbled across some wonderful outdoor opportunities, in places I wouldn't have been otherwise. I just had to keep my eyes open and pay attention, and be ready to capitalize on an opportunity when one presented itself. ( I shot a couple of big fat does one time in brushy field next to a gravel pit, while my buddy was trying to get the loader started to load up the dump-truck for me. We got our job done before the snow shut us down, and my mother got her freezer-full of bambi-burgers.)

The woodchuck hunting was what really sparked my interest in rifles & handloading, and shooting at long-ish ranges. I retired recently, and I'm just now getting back into handloading - after a twenty year hiatus. ( I didn't put my hunting on the back burner - I've just been doing it with factory loads. ) Now that handloading is back in my program, I'm having a grand ol' time learning new stuff, buying new tools, and getting schooled up on how to use them. This forum has been VERY helpful - there's a lot of talent on tap here, and everybody is willing to share their expertise. I greatly appreciate that. This forum also doesn't have as many know-it-alls as some of the others, and that's a good thing. Reading some guy pontificating about this or that gets old pretty quick, and I've had quite enough of that while I was still working. It's been great connecting with you about something that is kind of an "aside" to that. Thanks.

 

[LanceS4803]

Speaking of Siamese Mausers getting in short supply, while in Iraq in 2003, I saw huge pile of them. Mint condition, in heavy plastic bags. The thinking was they were taken from Iran during the Iraq-Iran war.
I suspect they were all destroyed.

 

[sable tireur]

while in Iraq in 2003, I saw huge pile of them. Mint condition, in heavy plastic bags. The thinking was they were taken from Iran during the Iraq-Iran war.
I suspect they were all destroyed.

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their homes!

 

[Utah Shotgunner]

Semi necro-post.
Just wanted to thank Siggy, as this is the kind of information that can be very useful.

Currently have five Siamese actions at my barrel 'smith. Three will be .45-70s, one a .405Win and the last a .30-40 Krag
Have made them feed in the past, but a new trick is always useful.

Thank you Siggy!

 

[Michael Souther]

Semi necro-post.
Just wanted to thank Siggy, as this is the kind of information that can be very useful.

Currently have five Siamese actions at my barrel 'smith. Three will be .45-70s, one a .405Win and the last a .30-40 Krag
Have made them feed in the past, but a new trick is always useful.

Thank you Siggy!

Love it, I Built one many years ago. 26 in barrel. 45 70 . The. Barrel maker was Federal I can't find them anymore. Super acurate. hand loads will take down anything. I found a semi finished stock, walnut at a gun show. I have one more action maybe go 348 or 405.

 

[Siggy32]

Utah Shotgunner, Thanks for the nod, you are more than welcome. I hope it helps you, Nothing was ever posted from the JBeck if my solution fixed his. But if helped anyone that is why I posted. I can run the 3 shells in the magazine & 1 in barrel just like a factory rifle now, no miss feeds. I might also suggest reloading 4 shells like you will shoot (with dead primers) so you can used them to test & fill the magazine while your are figuring the thickness needed to make it all work & feed properly. Again I taped a popsicle wood stick to the side which worked for me. But yours may need a little thicker or thinner wood piece to center it, to run correctly. Best of luck to you.

 

[ducky]

Currently have five Siamese actions at my barrel 'smith. Three will be .45-70s, one a .405Win and the last a .30-40 Krag

That last one intrests me the most. I had been looking for a .30-40 Mauser for years but found the right deal on a Krag rifle that had been sporterized. I'm not interested in converting a servicible Siamese Mauser or other old military rifle, but some aren't economicaly feasible to restore to full military dress. There is nothing wrong with making those in the latter category into servicable custom rifles.

 

[jbeck]

Utah Shotgunner, Thanks for the nod, you are more than welcome. I hope it helps you, Nothing was ever posted from the JBeck if my solution fixed his. But if helped anyone that is why I posted. I can run the 3 shells in the magazine & 1 in barrel just like a factory rifle now, no miss feeds. I might also suggest reloading 4 shells like you will shoot (with dead primers) so you can used them to test & fill the magazine while your are figuring the thickness needed to make it all work & feed properly. Again I taped a popsicle wood stick to the side which worked for me. But yours may need a little thicker or thinner wood piece to center it, to run correctly. Best of luck to you.

JBeck here..Sorry I didnt reply on my Siamese 45-70 issue. I am back home now and taking up the challenge again. Been out of the country.........Photos were great, except I had difficulty figuring exactly where the weld was. I have developed Parkinsons and having steady hands to work on my rifle is most challenging. If I may be so bold as to ask for help, if I were to send my follower to you would it be a possibility for you to do the welding. I dont think you are a gunsmith but I care not about that. If it wont work on my follower, so be it. at least we tried. Interested in a bit of help to an old retired USMC? (Please) J Becker, 542 Galena Dr Fruita CO. 81521

 

[jbeck]

Love it, I Built one many years ago. 26 in barrel. 45 70 . The. Barrel maker was Federal I can't find them anymore. Super acurate. hand loads will take down anything. I found a semi finished stock, walnut at a gun show. I have one more action maybe go 348 or 405.

So what did you do to make the old beast feed ? I would dearly love some help on this. I have contacted most all the area gunsmiths, but all are too busy or only do limited smithing, which my project didnt qualify....Thank you for your post.

 

[Old Rooster]

Nick, we all had rifles & shotguns in the window of the truck, knives in our pockets. We didn't even have to lock up the tools in shop class, or locks on our book lockers, it was a great time. I can say it was good old days, never would I have ever believed we would end up where we are today.

Siggy32 made me long for the good old days.Some boys and I got caught comparing our pocket knives and the teacher came up to us rather abruptly and told us that Case Knives were what we needed and he showed us his.
Those days are gone my friend and I fear they will never return!
Old Rooster

 

[Siggy32]

jbeck, I taped a popsicle stick to the left side of the follower (Shell holder) which pushes the complete follower to the right & keeps the shells under the sides (lips) of the action at the top of the magazine box. You may need to adjust the size of the piece of wood till the follower is far enough to the right to hold the shells under the lips & prevents them from popping up out of the magazine box wildly into the action. Once you have the correct size make a piece of metal stock the same width then weld that piece to the side of the follower, see my photos. You are just installing a spacer on the left side to keep the follower pushed to the right to hold the shells under the action ramps or lips. Once you find the correct size any welder at a machine shop can do the welding for you. As you can see mine wasn't the prettiest but it functions. The other thing is to polish the feed ramp on the front of the magazine box so the point of the bullet slides forward more smoothly vs. trying to jump a curb per say. Make it match the dimple or ramp on the action so it is a smooth push up the ramp forward vs. binding or running into a wall.

 

[Siggy32]

Just to clarify Don't take any metal off the action itself, don't file the lips or ramp of the action. Just the ramp on the front of the magazine box. Dremel tool with round pad & polish. All this modification is to the magazine box & shell follower not the action. PM me if you still have questions, I will give you my phone #.

 

[UPEgger]

During the sixties I converted a 1917 Enfield to a 458 Win Mag. Changes: cock on opening, remove rear sight ears fill in two oval holes, straighten floor plate. douglas barrel. Changed stock to walnut and glass bedded. These were simply changes. The Enfield had an extra 1/2 in of cartridge room over the springfield. And mine was made by Remington. To a collector this did indeed ruin the rifle. To me it produced a rifle that shot the cartridge of my choice.