Shot size and lethallity question.

[DartonJager]

Been trying to find some fact based data on the lethallity of #4 copper plated lead shot VS #5 at 50 and 60 yards. In an 2oz shell there are darn near 26% more #5 shot VS #4 (340/#5 VS 270/#4)
I always used #5 shot as a compromise of #s VS retained energy. Does anyone have link to any info or has read a legit study that shows that 3% antimony copper plated lead #4 shot has an advantage in retained energy at 50 and 60 yards significant enough to be worth using #4 over #5?

Thanks,
Art.

 

[cohunt]

It's all about pattern & choke, with your load.

Often times when using lead shot, more of it becomes deformed thus opening up the pattern when using a larger shot size so pattern is not always as good with 4 as it is with 5. My shotgun patterns better with #5 than #4 lead , but like any firearm they are all different.

Either 4 or 5 will kill a Turkey at 60 yards if you get enough shot in the "vital zone" --
That's why tss is so popular right now, it's much heavier for its size than lead so it retains its velocity/energy further than lead AND you get a whole lot more shot on target due to the larger number of pellets in the shell when using #7 or even #9 shot.
I've seen turkeys killed at 90 yards with #7 tss (not recomended but possible)

The downfall of a shotgun is shot dispersement over yardage

 

[DartonJager]

Well shot to day at 40 and 50 yards tried 2oz and 2.25oz loads of #4 and #5 Winchester LB/XR shells. Used standard full, turkey xtra full and turkey super xtra full chokes.
The #4 & #5 2oz loads shot best out of the turkey super xtra full (.660") but were out performed by the 2.25oz #4 & #5 loads out the turkey xtra full (.665") that put best guess 15-20% more pellets in a 10" circle at both 40 and 50 yards. At 50 yards I can count on with a near 100% certainty of putting combined at least 16-18 #5 pellets in the vital areas of a a turkeys brain and spinal column.

For some reason my gun just doesn't shoot #4 shot either 2oz or 2.25oz nearly as well as #5 shot and this was with using three Remington full, xtra and super xtra full turkey factory chokes, a Carlson's Winchester LB/XR choke made spacifically for use with W/LB/XR turkey shells and a Indian Creek BDS turkey choke. Not to be misunderstood my gun definately shoots #4 shot well enough to hunt with out to 50 yards but I get 8-10 #4 lethal hits VS 20 with #5 shot so I/m going with #5 shot.

Take into account these shots were all taken form a very steady bench with the guns forearm and both my arms resting on sand bags the increased number of hits with #5 shot gain more significance when you consider shots in the field at almost always a moving turkey and often made with minimal or no support to the shotgun.

 

[Clay Target Guy]

I don't want to sound dumb or anything but one reason you may have more hits in the vital area with #5 over #4's is pellet count. You have more 5's per oz of shot than you do with #4 and the same is true of #6's over #5's.
Either way, I have seen first hand that some guns like a 2 oz load better than a 2.25 oz load and some guns like one shot size over another.
I think a lot of guys that turkey hunt do not put the time or effort (or money) into finding what their gun likes best the way that you are doing, so congrats for doing the work.
I know I have a draw full of choke tubes and a cabinet full of shells that was a swing and a miss before I settled in on my current set up.

 

[DartonJager]

Very well stated CTG, I was trying 2.1/8oz 3.5" 12 ga shells in hopes the 1/8 oz extra of #4 shot would narrow the performance gap with 2oz of #5 shot enough I could use them, as 2oz of #5 patterns are deadly out to 60 yards and #4's have more retained energy than #5s but unfortunately that didn't happen and I'm leary to invest additional $$$ in chokes beyond the four I have already bought as they didn't IMHO give me significant enough increase in performance over my Remington turkey chokes to justify their considerable expense in an attempt to improve the pattern density of #5 or #4 shot. I also found out that 1/8oz more of #4 shot equates to only +/- 16 pellets so that is likely not a significant enough increase in number of pellets to have any realistic chance at improving performance.

Strangely enough I tried 3.5" 2.1/8oz loads of #5 shot and after using a full, exta full and super xtra full and the 2oz load of #5 shot still out performed the 2.1/8oz load. The major difference was in how uniformly the 2oz load of #5's dispersed over the 10" circle and 20" circles. The 2.1/8oz of #5's had 45 fewer hits in the 10" circle and had more gaps that were 2" or larger VS the 2oz load. Would've never imagined that only 21 more pellets would result in a noticeable DECREASE in over all performance. If I would have been asked to predict the outcome prior to testing I would've guessed either no change or a slight increase in over all pattern performance, but definitely not a reduction in performance.

Bottom line is with a 2oz load of #5 shot at 40-45 yards if I keep a Tom's head anywhere with in a 12" circle let alone 10" he has absolutely zero chance of survival.

Again thanks to all for your responses.