Shot show...So what great optic releases can we expect to see in 2011?
- Thread starter Sako7STW
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SWFA has their own line of scopes basically, that are based off the old tactical grade scopes that Tasco used to make back in the day when they made the real good quality stuff.
Lots of changes since then but suffice to say they are likely the most unknown, underrated, best priced, high quality, rugged scopes around. They compare very well with scopes costing much more due to how they market the scopes. They basically have no middle man, just straight from the factory to SWFA who then sells them retail. Overhead is also kept very low with very little advertising and marketing costs needed.
I have been real impressed with them and the new stuff they just came out with and the soon to be released is supposed to be great as well. Very exciting! Their new 1-4x24 close range tactical scopes are very impressive. I don't have one of those yet but have watched the threads on the workup to their release and am really impressed!
You can learn all about them at optics talk and see them for sale at SWFA's site.
Jon A
Well-Known Member
Yeah, other than name the new models have nothing in common with the old models--which are decent scopes for the price but certainly on the low end glass-wise, etc.
The new models are completely new clean-sheet designs made in a different factory--actually the same factory in Japan where Nightforces are made. The highest power HD right now, the 10X fixed, has glass comparable to the IOR 2.5-10 if you've ever looked through one of those you know that's high praise. Here are a couple articles where it is compared with high end scopes:
High End Tactical Scopes: East vs West
High End Tactical Scopes: Part II
The durability, the tracking repeatability, etc, is stellar. They've been around for a while now and you just never hear of people having problems with them. They have a couple (a 10X HD and a 3-9X I think) at the Rifles Only school on hand for students to use when they break their Leupolds that have seen many lifetimes of abuse but are still going strong.
Anyway, that's why we're excited about a higher power version coming out. Quality-wise I expect it to compete with scopes costing $2k but it should sell for much less.
The new models are completely new clean-sheet designs made in a different factory--actually the same factory in Japan where Nightforces are made. The highest power HD right now, the 10X fixed, has glass comparable to the IOR 2.5-10 if you've ever looked through one of those you know that's high praise. Here are a couple articles where it is compared with high end scopes:
High End Tactical Scopes: East vs West
High End Tactical Scopes: Part II
The durability, the tracking repeatability, etc, is stellar. They've been around for a while now and you just never hear of people having problems with them. They have a couple (a 10X HD and a 3-9X I think) at the Rifles Only school on hand for students to use when they break their Leupolds that have seen many lifetimes of abuse but are still going strong.
Anyway, that's why we're excited about a higher power version coming out. Quality-wise I expect it to compete with scopes costing $2k but it should sell for much less.
Jon A
Well-Known Member
Assuming most here want higher powers for LR which eliminates the SS 3-9, I'd put them at:
1 PST 4-16/6-24 . Pretty easily the best all around package for less than $1K.
2 Weaver 3-15/4-20. Lacks features but makes up for it with brilliant optics for the price. .1 Mil knobs finally available.
3 Bushnell 3-12/6-24. Personally I want more than 12X for a LR scope these days, but their 6-24 is too much for anything too close so that's the main reason I have them at the bottom. A 4-16 or 5-20 would be much more useful to me overall. And the 6-24 is seriously lacking in adjustment range. I've heard they may fix that this year? I've also heard they may be discontinued so I don't know. For woods hunting at low light I'd say the 3-12 would easily be ahead of the Weaver with its illumination, but for everything else I'd rather have the Weaver.
#1 at any price? That's tough. At the top end they're you can't really say one is "better" than another as they are all so good it comes down to personal preferences of the features you want. And of course many of the top contenders aren't yet available and/or I haven't played with them yet.
I guess the best answer to that is it's no accident I've put down a deposit on a March 3-24. The capability of this scope, and the overall package is hard to beat. I know a Hensoldt 4-16 will do some things a little better, as might a S&B 3-20 (probably my second choice) but the way I see it, the March will leave little to be desired in any area for any type of use.
The size and weight of this thing is going to be such a thrill after carrying around giant scopes the last few years. The brush hunting prowess of 3X and yet the ability to see bullet holes in targets or tines on a rack at distance as well as many spotting scopes make this an amazing piece of equipment. Low profile large diameter knobs are exactly what I like—especially with 10 mils per turn—zero stop, tons of travel, illumination, very nice reticle, brilliant optics by any measure…March's reputation for durability and tracking accuracy/repeatability…. It's just hard to think of a single thing this scope lacks for my purposes.
While I can certainly get along well with a number of high end scopes, I really think all things considered this is the best for me. On a big, heavy rifle where size/weight wasn't a concern or one that never gets used up close so low magnification isn't needed other choices might do as well or better.
Anyway, back to the subject of the thread:
In the window between the top end and the sub-$1K level, I'm really excited about the new Premier. I really liked my 3-15, a Hunter or "light tactical" model with the same glass, weighing a pound less but still "tough enough" is very attractive, especially if priced below the NF F1. NF has finally put a decent reticle in the F1 and now with 10 Mil knobs it's getting closer to what I'd like but I'd have a hard time choosing it over the premier for $2K+.
Another I'm excited about in this range is a new IOR. It's a 4-16X50 on a 30mm tube. FFP Mil/Mil, Illuminated…but lighter weight and lower in price than the 3.5-18X50. I like my 3.5-18 but it's as heavy as the Premier Heritage.
Those two choices should be very interesting to hunters wanting something a significant step up from the PST's but not going over the $2K, 35oz marks. This is about where I expect the 5-20 SS to fit in as well. I don't know if it will have quite that level of glass quality but may come in significantly cheaper. We shall see.
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Sako7stw,
I just got one of the Bushnell ffp scopes in 3-12X44 illuminated and am pretty impressed just looking out the window so far(about a foot of snow since i got it here so havent shot it). I liked it good enough that i ordered another one and a 6-24X50 ffp aslo. Midway and Natchez both have huge sales on them now with Natchez being the cheapest. I was sceptical too about sight unseen but am very happy. A couple good reviews of them over on snipershide on the 6-24 and i think one on youtube on the 3-12.
I just got one of the Bushnell ffp scopes in 3-12X44 illuminated and am pretty impressed just looking out the window so far(about a foot of snow since i got it here so havent shot it). I liked it good enough that i ordered another one and a 6-24X50 ffp aslo. Midway and Natchez both have huge sales on them now with Natchez being the cheapest. I was sceptical too about sight unseen but am very happy. A couple good reviews of them over on snipershide on the 6-24 and i think one on youtube on the 3-12.
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It is good to hear you have enough confidence in the March scopes to overlook their crappy 5 year warranty. Out of principal alone I don't want to buy one. A scope that expensive should offer a lot more than 5 years. But their features are impressive and if they hold up and you don't have issues they are at the top of the heap IMO.
Weaver and Bushnell need a better mil reticle than just mildot. Anything simple with 1/2 mil graduations would be ideal. Now that they have .1 mil adjusts they will be impressive. I am expecially excited about Weaver. I love their upper end scopes and have about 4 of their V16's on my airguns that have performed flawlessly! I know they have new reticles coming out too but I haven't seen pics.
What reticle are you referring to in NF's F1?
zupatun
Well-Known Member
I talked to the folks at the Nightforce booth. They make their scopes in Orofino Idaho, not Japan. I think I hears when they started out they had some made in jbapan...but they were pretty clear they design and assemble in the US.
Sorry for the crappy cellphone typing.
Matt
Sorry for the crappy cellphone typing.
Matt
zupatun
Well-Known Member
I didn't ask details on where they got reticles, or tubes or erectors or O-rings etc...
I would assume, but not state it as fact unless I knew, that optics come from Asia--most but not all do these days.
As for the rest I wouldn't presume to know-and I didn't ask specifically at the booth yesterday. Why don't you email them and ask? They might give you an answer. I'm curious.
Matt
Jon A
Well-Known Member
The F1 3.5-15 and compact 1-4 and 2.5-10 are made in the USA and say that right on them.
The SFP 3.5-15, 5.5-22, etc, that most people here have, are made in Japan and say that right on them (unless it has changed REALLY recently).
The SFP 3.5-15, 5.5-22, etc, that most people here have, are made in Japan and say that right on them (unless it has changed REALLY recently).
Jon A
Well-Known Member
There's some info and pics in this thread: Nightforce Shot Show flyer - Sniper's Hide Forums .
Jon A
Well-Known Member
It gets even better. Apparently in addition to .1 mil clicks the Weavers are getting a better reticle with 1/2 Mil marks, illumination and 100 MOA of travel! As long as they didn't compromise the optics to get that increased travel, this could offer some legit competition to the PST.
Ya, I just read about those features on the hide. Impressive indeed! Do you know if their tacitcal line will use the micro-track turrets? Those turrets are the real deal in my experience and I think they are seriously missing out by not offering more scopes with that turret system and doing a better job of promoting them. Scopes with micro-track are some of the few I have played with that have had no issues with tracking and holding zero. Not that they can't but I think they are at the top of the heap for consistency.
