Shooting rest while developing loads

[nddodd]

Absolute rubbish for hunting guns, factory or custom...
We don't group shoot animals, and it only takes a single shot to define ACCURACY.

That's what it will always boil down to here..

+1 I agree with mike, I like shooting groups as much as the next guy but your first cold bore is the one that counts. I read one of your posts or at least I think it was one of yours saying that you would shoot one shot one day at a said distance then go back a hour or so later or the next day even shoot one more and so on for three or four shots then look at your group. That was very good advice IMHO


Nathan

 

[Mikecr]

Yes that's right.
I continually work on cold bore performance that is based soley on accuracy at various ranges and conditions. With some guns, it's off a bench w/rest and bags. But with some it has to be Harris bipod in the dirt(the way I shoot all hunting).

I don't know what any of my guns would hold with a 20sht string. Nor would I waste the time and barrel life to work on that.
I'M A HUNTER. I learn what my guns will do with their first and only shot in the field.

 

[Bart B]

Absolute rubbish for hunting guns, factory or custom...
We don't group shoot animals, and it only takes a single shot to define ACCURACY.

That's what it will always boil down to here..

I agree with your single shot stuff for hunting, but the thread was about shooting groups. Hence multiple shots are required. That is unless your rifle shoots zero MOA down range, then one shot's enough

It should only take one shot to sight in a hunting rifle from offhand (standing), too. If you can't sight in a rifle with a single shot from standing up on your hind legs (no bench or rest of any kind), then your equipment or you need some improvement. Good shooters can do this easily.

 

[rscott5028]

It should only take one shot to sight in a hunting rifle from offhand (standing), too. If you can't sight in a rifle with a single shot from standing up on your hind legs (no bench or rest of any kind), then your equipment or you need some improvement. Good shooters can do this easily.

The thread was about load development. ..not just shooting groups or sighting in. As such, I tend to want to eliminate as many variables as possible in order to know how the rifle and ammo are getting along.

Anyway, you're way better than me. I never "sight in" my rifle "standing". ...especially not for LRH.

But, perhaps that's just me?

-- richard

 

[Mikecr]

Bob 20shot groups just can't be advised for hunting cartridge load development.
Not only would it be disastrous for our barrels, but it wouldn't provide a bit of value w/regard to our endeavour.

You've departed from the realities of LR hunting equipment.

 

[sp6x6]

Bart, A buddy of mine has shot several tight groups that are under his record breaking gun, by 1/4 to 1/2 for 5 shots. HE was testing loads for a friend 2 wks ago and put 5 in 2 1/2 at 1000. Bench shooter,gun)

 

[Bart B]

Bart, A buddy of mine has shot several tight groups that are under his record breaking gun, by 1/4 to 1/2 for 5 shots. HE was testing loads for a friend 2 wks ago and put 5 in 2 1/2 at 1000. Bench shooter,gun)

Been in eastern Europe where satellite internet's pretty bad, but finally got home to respond to this.

Such things do happen, but it's very, very rare. Your buddy's experience represent less than 1% of all the instances. As group shooting's not an exact science, sometimes one reaches beyond the spectrum limits at both ends. They'll end up with a new "smallest" group as well as a new "largest" one.

 

[rscott5028]

You don't have to shoot 20 shot groups to tell whether or not you have a good load or rifle or shooter.

But, I do agree with Bart on one thing... We (long range shooters) are bigger liars than fishermen. It's always fun to reference our new, smallest group. But if you haven't shot a 1 or 2 MOA group, you haven't shot much at long range.

-- richard

 

[Boss Hoss]

Yes that's right.
I continually work on cold bore performance that is based soley on accuracy at various ranges and conditions. With some guns, it's off a bench w/rest and bags. But with some it has to be Harris bipod in the dirt(the way I shoot all hunting).

I don't know what any of my guns would hold with a 20sht string. Nor would I waste the time and barrel life to work on that.
I'M A HUNTER. I learn what my guns will do with their first and only shot in the field.

Mike---sorry but with my rifles the final load will see a 10 shot string which validates the velocity spread as well. Development I use 5 shot groups for competition as well as sporters. The one thing that I am fortunate in is that my cold barrel shots are virtually undistinguishable from the last shot. The process, equipment and most materials used to build the rifles (am fortunate to have one builder for my competition and LR stuff) and ammunition are the same albeit sporter or competition.

For factory rifles and depending on who built you rifle some customs it is a crap shoot. There are so many variables in this process it is not possible to go into them all. One BIG issue is the amount of fouling in the bore because without a bore scope you never really know how much or what type exists in your tube….

 

[Mikecr]

It is common for hunting guns, with hunting cartridges, to shift considerably in velocity from cold barrel to hot. I've seen ~150fps climb with a couple very accurate carry-hunting guns.
Now, I can warm em up & fresh foul to go to group shooting -NOT what matters with hunting guns.

My ES, ladders, grouping, and definitely my accuracy, count only as seperated by time.
W/resp to hunting, I'm confident yours count the very same(unless it takes you 10shts to hit your mark).

 

[Firecat]

When going through load development, the most critical thing on your agenda should be consistency in your bag manners. I find that the type of rest matters less than my form being absolutely consistent from shot to shot. Now some rest will lend themselves to consistency better than others and that is part of the whole equation. I have made a few of the Butterfly style rests shown earlier and have had good luck with them. I have also had good luck prone off of a bipod. A lead sled is a good choice as it can be almost free of human interference. Whatever the method just remember consistency in recoil, trigger pull, cheek weld, forearm support etc. is critical.

 

[RDM416]

I do all my load development off a very stable bench using a Sinclair front rest and an Edgewood minigator rear bag. Load development is all about precision and consistency. A good front rest with a rear bag on a bench is just superior in every way to a bi-pod. In my opinion when doing load development or verifying the accuracy of a rifle, you should take as much human error as possible out.

I have never had any POI issues when using a bipod, but like Mikecr said you should check for that. I have seen it with buddies I shoot with but with me I simply see my groups open up a bit.

 

[Boss Hoss]

It is common for hunting guns, with hunting cartridges, to shift considerably in velocity from cold barrel to hot. I've seen ~150fps climb with a couple very accurate carry-hunting guns.
Now, I can warm em up & fresh foul to go to group shooting -NOT what matters with hunting guns.

My ES, ladders, grouping, and definitely my accuracy, count only as seperated by time.
W/resp to hunting, I'm confident yours count the very same(unless it takes you 10shts to hit your mark).

I believe you should qualify your statement. Mine (hunting rifles) do not so it can be done. Just depends on the Smith and the componets you choose to build with. That being said Bag Manners are critical. I had two tops made for my rest one for competition width and another for sporters.

The only thing I can tell you if you are having problems maybe you should change Smiths or maybe your build componets. Just stating a fact.

 

[moombaskier]

+1 Firecat. And that goes for the first shot when hunting too! I use a lead sled for development and enjoy seeing the bullet cut the paper at 200 yds. I almost always shoot about 2" higher with a bipod or bags though. That's when I rezero the rifle and do a ten day, 1 shot each day, through the chrony at the same target to validate SD and ES for the first cold bore shot group, so to speak. When that works out I know I have a winner, and practice from there.