Shells sticking in chamber/bullet die.

[LRSickle]

I have a Wilson chamber type bullet seater for my 6.5x284. It was supplied with my gun and I've never used one before. They're pretty simple to use but my problem is the shell sticks in the die. Not real tight but tight enough that I have to pluck it out with a small screwdriver. Sometimes I have to pry hard enough that the screwdriver makes a small nick on the rim of the shell. This can't be right. Shouldn't the shell fall right out? I thought maybe it was stiction caused by leftover lube on the case but I cleaned a couple cases with alcohol and it still did it. Any insight from you guys would help.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I have a Wilson chamber type bullet seater for my 6.5x284. It was supplied with my gun and I've never used one before. They're pretty simple to use but my problem is the shell sticks in the die. Not real tight but tight enough that I have to pluck it out with a small screwdriver. Sometimes I have to pry hard enough that the screwdriver makes a small nick on the rim of the shell. This can't be right. Shouldn't the shell fall right out? I thought maybe it was stiction caused by leftover lube on the case but I cleaned a couple cases with alcohol and it still did it. Any insight from you guys would help.

I'm assuming you are refering to a loaded round that has it's neck stuck in the Wilson bushing. I would measure the neck wall, and then double that number plus the bullet diameter. Go for about .0035" grip on the bullet, but no more than .005" (that's a lot of grip). In the end you might end up having to open up the neck area of the seating die a couple thousandths, or shaving the necks (best way). I've always found Wilson dies work best with shaved necks in the past, and I use several different sets of them. What size bushing are you using in the sizing die? I'd think a .296 or .297 would be about right
gary

 

[LRSickle]

I've always found Wilson dies work best with shaved necks in the past, and I use several different sets of them. What size bushing are you using in the sizing die? I'd think a .296 or .297 would be about right
gary

I have three bushings for my Redding die, a .290, .291 and a .293. Right now I'm using the .291. I wonder if I use the .290 bushing if that extra .001 thou would make a difference.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I have three bushings for my Redding die, a .290, .291 and a .293. Right now I'm using the .291. I wonder if I use the .290 bushing if that extra .001 thou would make a difference.

I'd try it on a couple cases to see if it helps. The wall thickness on the .284 case is about .018"!! (Winchester case), and when you add .036" to .264 you get .300. I'd at least shave the necks down to .296. Better yet would be to take the .293 bushing, and size a case. Measure the I.D. (don't use a caliper!). It should be about .263, but I'm betting you'll see something around .258 or less.

If you have access to a set of small hole gauges, then use them with a micrometer. Calipers have flats on the blades, that will give you a little error in your readings. I recommend the set of small hole gauges from Mitutoyo or Brown & Sharp for everyone interested in precision ammo.

Another thing to check on is to see if the cases have the dreaded doughnut at the base of the neck. (.284 cases are famous for this) With the doughnut ring in there the neck wall will expand a little more than the rest of the neck when you seat the bullet (assuming your going deep into the neck)
gary

 

[boomtube]

"I wonder if I use the .290 bushing if that extra .001 thou would make a difference. "

Well, you have the bushing and it's cheap to try, so why not???

Fact is, the final diameter of the loaded round is determined by the bullet diameter and the thickness of the necks. You could size them with a .285" bushing and they should end up the same finished diameter.

 

[LRSickle]

"I wonder if I use the .290 bushing if that extra .001 thou would make a difference. "

Well, you have the bushing and it's cheap to try, so why not???

Fact is, the final diameter of the loaded round is determined by the bullet diameter and the thickness of the necks. You could size them with a .285" bushing and they should end up the same finished diameter.

I think your right. I tried the .290 bushing and it didn't make any difference. I turned my neck but not much. I was just truing them up so I basicaly just took a little skiff off of one side.

 

[LRSickle]

I'd try it on a couple cases to see if it helps. The wall thickness on the .284 case is about .018"!! (Winchester case), and when you add .036" to .264 you get .300. I'd at least shave the necks down to .296. Better yet would be to take the .293 bushing, and size a case. Measure the I.D. (don't use a caliper!). It should be about .263, but I'm betting you'll see something around .258 or less.

If you have access to a set of small hole gauges, then use them with a micrometer. Calipers have flats on the blades, that will give you a little error in your readings. I recommend the set of small hole gauges from Mitutoyo or Brown & Sharp for everyone interested in precision ammo.

Another thing to check on is to see if the cases have the dreaded doughnut at the base of the neck. (.284 cases are famous for this) With the doughnut ring in there the neck wall will expand a little more than the rest of the neck when you seat the bullet (assuming your going deep into the neck)
gary

I have access to hole gauges at work. I'll shave a bit off the neck as per your recomendation and I'll bet that solves it.

I checked for a donut ring inside the base of the neck and it was smooth. I've only fired these Lapua cases once so I'll keep an eye on that.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Chuck.

 

[Gene]

I have four sets of Wilson chamber dies, and what you describe is not unusual. Wilson tolerances are very close, so that sizing the head of the case is a problematical fit for each chamber. It should not happen on virgin brass. The best way to open it up a little, is to have it polished. A gunsmith will charge about $20 to do this. Wilson will do it for free, but only if you send them your receipt for the die.

 

[LRSickle]

It should not happen on virgin brass.

Ah Hah! Ding ding, Gene I think you may have something. I'm only neck sizing my brass. I'll bet it's probably not my neck but my case needs to be bumped back a bit. I'll set up my die again and see what happens.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I have access to hole gauges at work. I'll shave a bit off the neck as per your recomendation and I'll bet that solves it.

I checked for a donut ring inside the base of the neck and it was smooth. I've only fired these Lapua cases once so I'll keep an eye on that.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Chuck.

here's what I'd do if it were me.
* I'd shave the necks for about a 90% cleanup (keep them all the same size). You'll probably end up with about .015" neck wall thickness with a little luck going your way. Then size the necks with the .290 bushing. This on paper gives you .004" grip on the bullet, but the necks will spring back about .001" to .0015", giving you an actual grip on the bullet of about .003" (a great place to start). While doing this order in a .289" and a .288" bushing in case you need a bit more tension on the bullet. Now I've never worked with the Lapua cases your talking about, so you should make some measurments before going too far in the project.

Lastly I highly recommend buy a set of the small hole gauges. They're better than the older telescopic gauges, and I think they're a little better than "unimics". Also a small fraction of the price tag. If you buy any, look for the ones that are "D" shaped with the flat end on them.

Keep us posted on your adventure, and if I can help be sure to let me know
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Ah Hah! Ding ding, Gene I think you may have something. I'm only neck sizing my brass. I'll bet it's probably not my neck but my case needs to be bumped back a bit. I'll set up my die again and see what happens.

I don't think that will help. The critical areas on a Wilson seater are the neck, and not the body of the case. I use fired cases in mine all the time at the range, and have no way to do a full length resize or a bump (you should use a bump die and not a full length sizer for this.) With shaved necks you'll get better concentricity, but one thing you ought to check before going too far is to see if the cases are strait or have a banana shape in them. A Wilson die wants everything strait, and concentric. Once you get there; you'll never look back.
gary

 

[Gene]

You guys need to read this: http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=845212

 

[LRSickle]

I took out my decapping pin and adjusted my dies so it bumped my shoulder back about .001 - .002. The loaded case needed only a little coaxing to come out so I'm sure that was part of the problem. I could tell it isn't stiction because as soon as it got out about the length of the neck it plopped out. So I shaved an ever-so-slight amount from the neck and tried another one. Perfect!!
Thanks for all the help you guys. I learned something.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I took out my decapping pin and adjusted my dies so it bumped my shoulder back about .001 - .002. The loaded case needed only a little coaxing to come out so I'm sure that was part of the problem. I could tell it isn't stiction because as soon as it got out about the length of the neck it plopped out. So I shaved an ever-so-slight amount from the neck and tried another one. Perfect!!
Thanks for all the help you guys. I learned something.

I would go ahead hand shave about a a dozen cases for a 90% cleanup. Like I said with luck you'll have about .015" neck wall thickness, but anything heavier than .0125" is OK. Then measure the bullet diameter and double the wall thickness. Now start out with a bushing that shrinks the neck diameter .003" to .004", and go from there. I'd also suggest that you load up enough cases to fill the rifle's magazine, and then shoot about six or eight rounds thru it without using the rounds in the magazine. Then measure the datum line of the bullet to the base of the case to see if the bullets are moving on you in the magazine. If they are you may want to go with a smaller bushing

I glad things are turning out for the better for you
gary