Severely Overbore Chartidges and short barrel life myths...

[Elkslayer1]

Kirby,

Thanks so much on the information that you provided me. It makes allot of sense.

At this time I cannot afford a custom gun......but when I can I will call you!

I hope that I can get this gun to around 1/2 moa with a little reloading.

Thanks again. Elkslayer!!

 

[Fiftydriver]

Hicks,

I have heard a few others report in results like your saw so they must be out there but the vast majority of reports are glowing for the Accubond and I have used them alot with great results.

I do know for a fact that a couple years ago, Nosler was having some problems with their tips in the Accubonds. Some of the bonding compound was pushing up around the tops and disolving them at the base inside the jacket. Often times these tips could be easily broken off with just your fingers.

I contacted Nosler about this problem and they said they knew about it and had already corrected it and sent me two boxes of both the 160 gr 7mm and 200 gr 30 cal accubonds.

Since then I have never had any problems at all so you may have been dealing with something like that as well.

The RUM at 3200 fps is PLENTY fast for the Accubond. I would say its just a freak thing. One thing to remember also is that the Accubond is a bonded core bullet. IT will not fragment, it will not explode, it looses very little bullet mass and generally does not produce hug exit wounds unless off side heavy bone is contacted. Now there are exceptions to the rule. As soon as I say this someone will get on here talking about football sized exit wounds caused by the Accubonds, but on averge they do not leave HUGE exit wounds.

I think we often get hung up on thinking these big guns are going to drop an animal in its tracks which for the most part will never happen unless you hit a major structural support bone, OR, central nervous system hit. An exampleof this.

Last fall, my wife took a good pronghorn using my 300 Allen Xpress Raptor prototype rifle. The range was in the 750 yard area. Iset the rifle up, told her where to hold for the slight wind and she took it from there. The wind died just as she tripped the trigger and the shot landed similiar to the first shot on your buck, right on the line of the back of the lungs.

We were shooting the 240 gr SMK at 3200 fps. The impact rocked the buck solidly but he did not loose his feet, in fact he stood there for 4-5 minutes but he had turned with his rear toward us. He was not going anywhere so we just set there and watched. Finally, after around 5 minutes he layed down. We knew he was hurt bad as he did not even attempt to go with his herd, he just stood there and then laid down. We set there and watched until his head went to the ground, nearly 20 minutes after the shot.....

When we dressed the buck out, the big SMK had slipped right between the lungs and liver, doing some damage to both but not much. Still, it was enough to keep the animal there until it died. Had it been a lesser rifle, I am sure that shot placement would have resulted in a lost animal but the big gun imposed enough stress on the system of the buck that it did not go anywhere.

My point is this, these animals can take a hell of a beating, even with good shot placement, if you put a shot on the fringes, do not expect an instant kill, it will not happen.

The bergers have a relatively low velocity ceiling of around 3200 fps but they can also be quite finicky. It is my recommendation that if you shoot a group and see 2 moa class groups, its either caused by a mechanical issue with the rifle/optics, or the bullet simply will not shoot in that specific rifle and there is no sense wasting time and componanats to make it happen. I have done this before, with a 7mm Rem Mag and I tested every load I Could think of thinking "I could MAKE this rifle shoot". Some rifles with some loads simply will not shoot so if you see groups this big, check for mechanical issues and if there is nothing wrong, start with a new bullet.

 

[Fiftydriver]

SHRTSHRT,

I would estimate your a bit high in round count. I would say its more like the 1200-1500 range on average. Again, this is never set in stone and I have seen some of these push near 2000 rounds or at least heard others report this but I would say that is not the norm.

With 10 tags you should be able to report some results to us!!! Have fun.

 

[hillbillybear]

That's some fine shooting at 880 yards.

 

[MT4XFore]

Kirby, I certainly understand how you hardly have time for anything as hard as you are working now. Of course, some things like family just have to have time made for them. But I can assure all the readers on this forum, that after visiting you this week, I'm sure you are working hard, because you don't even have time for your beauty rest!


Jim

 

[Boss Hoss]

Kirby, I certainly understand how you hardly have time for anything as hard as you are working now. Of course, some things like family just have to have time made for them. But I can assure all the readers on this forum, that after visiting you this week, I'm sure you are working hard, because you don't even have time for your beauty rest!


Jim

LOL that one has to sting a little!

 

[Fiftydriver]

Friday I took little green with me to test some customers rifles. As I had mentioned my lightweight 7mm AM has never been a steller shooter. Solid but never amazing but she has never let me down.

Well, after proving a few customer projects, I wanted to take a bit more time to fine tune my rifle. I had shot it a bit for drops but nothing real serious so I set up a 100 yard target just to confirm impact.

I only shoot pairs when getting a quick dial in, another tip to save on a barrels life. I know pairs mean nothing.......

First pair, 1.5" high, 1" to the right, less then 1/3 moa ctc. I was very suprised. Made a scope adjustment, took two more shots. Came into line windage wise, pair measured 0.6" ctc. Added 1 moa of height to the scope and two a final two shots. They cut each other in half. Less then 0.2 moa!!!! Again very suprised. I have never shot even pairs this well with this rifle.

With that, I set up my drop chart with my handheld. Ran the numbers and then started looking for targets to thump.

First was 355 yards. Basically aimed at the top edge of a 1/3 moa rifle and flipped it in the air landing the shot right at the bottom edge of the rock. Very good.

Next up, 445 yards at a very small 1/4 moa sized white rock. Took two shots. Landed one on each side of the rock, height was perfect. Again, a bit impressed with the old rifle but she was not done yet.

Moved on out to 700 yards even. The target rock was roughly 5" tall and 8" long in a long oval shape. First shot smacked the left third of the rock. Second shot was more center but hit the bottom half!!! Even happier.

Now for some serious testing. I had just finished up testing one of my 338 AMs at 942 yards on a target rock that was again around 1/2 moa in size. Looked up the hold over for my 7mm AM which was 4.5 mil on the Leupold FFP Mk 4 TMR reticle. First shot landed 3" to the left of the center of the rock, just on the left edge. Second shot landed literally on top of the first. At least in the same crater, within inches of each other.

I have never felt comfortable with this rifle past around 1/2 mile on game but after seeing this, I am starting to rethink this old girl. Again, it never fails to amaze me how this rifle is performing with the number of rounds down the tube. It looks like the new barrel will be sitting for another year at least!!!

To be brutally honest, it shot every bit as good as my Raptor LRSS in 338 AX. That is not a put down to the Raptor because it EASILY held 1/2 moa or better and it did so out to 1350 yards but out to 942, my lightweight 7mm AM with old barrel put its first shots in there just as tight as my 16 lb Raptor..........

Again, it should not be shooting this well but I am happy to keep the smile on my face and keep this old girl beside me as long as she wants to keep behaving like this!!! I may have to set the gong up at 1K just to get something to take a picture of!!!! IF nothing else just for the shop wall.

Pronghorn starts next weekend. With the work load in the shop and trying to get customers rifles out I may not get much time for that this year but I will be ready for big game season and a trip down to hunt some big whitetails in Oklahoma again and old green will be with me for sure. The Raptor will come along as well!!!

 

[260shooter]

Kirby

What are your thoughts or experiences with Nitride treating barrels?

Reports of doubling barrel life going around. If true it sounds like a great thing.

260

 

[Hicks]

Kirby,

Thanks for the info. In my case, though I haven't scoped the bore, I think the bbl was smoked because the good load of 92gr of Retumbo with the Accubonds wouldn't shoot either. Yes, definitely an expensive mistake in thinking I could make the berger's shoot if I just tried hard enough. At least I have a nice stock and a nice action left.

Jon

 

[Fiftydriver]

260shooter,

Barrel treatments have come and gone over the years and most have had the same reported results. In my opinion, a well cared for, properly broken in barrel that is not over heated will offer more then enough barrel life to justify any cost of the barrel cost and fitting.

To be fair I have not tested this barrel treatment but I can tell you that any of these barrel treatments not offered by the barrels manufacturer will likely void any warrantee that came with the barrel from the manufacturer.

I remember when Moly was the cats meow. Now you seldom hear about it like you used to. Gun Juice was another one with huge barrel life claims. Do not hear much about it now.

The reason, while barrel life certainly increased with these products, it was not to the degree that warranted the extra cost and labor to treat the barrels.

In the end, unless I am shooting a 50 BMG class weapon, I will only shoot bare bullets and conventionally made and broke in barrels. Not saying it does not work, just I would suspect its rewards are less then the cost you have to put into it.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Hicks,

Did you adjust your seating depth when you started shooting the Accubonds again or just stay with your original load?

 

[MT4XFore]

Kirby, I guess the old green is just like a treasured wife: she never lets you down and if you treat her right, she just gets better with age. Eventually though, you may need to trade her in on a newer model. Now be careful how you talk about the AX, you may get me to second guessing!

Jim

 

[johntree63]

very interesting read on this posting, first of all with that kind of horsepower the shooter should shoot regularly throughout the year with a less costly to shoot rifle and secondly not be afraid of the boom and recoil .

I had a 6.5 -06 built and shoot 140 partitions at 3100 fps and the barnes 130 tsx at 3290 in ought-6 case capacities. deadly accurate with the hart barrel , brass is cheap too ......

I spend a good amount of time at the range and see so many get the super kill all magnum across the county and cant hit the broad side of the barn from inside.

Know your gun and range and be ethical , my opinion...

 

[justgoto]

Wait... What?!??! Tell me that's an '06! I have my grandpa's Eddystone, which I put a Vari-X III 6.5 - 20 x40 on and swapped to a Bell and Carlson synthetic. Factory bbl and a nice Canjar trigger. I haven't bedded the action, but it looks like it fits really tight in the stock and the bbl is floated up to about an inch infront of the lug. He was able to shoot little bitty groups, and the last elk he killed was out past 500 yards. I've played a little bit with the 168gr SMK, but the accuracy was poor. What is your load?

Hicks

That load I was using a 150gr SST, 49.5gr of IMR 4064, CCI BR-2, bullet seated to the cannelure and crimped. I've yet to find a bullet that doesn't shoot well in that rifle. Here is today's shot using the 168gr A-Max with 48gr of IMR 4064.
Eddystone 1917, 300 Yards, 6 Inch Target

I had a scope on it when I got that .75moa group but haven't had one on it for some time, so I don't really know how well the 168grs shoot... at least under 2moa anyway.