Setting up dies "properly"

[Tiny Tim]

Gages space off the belt, so they don't really tell you much about your chamber beyond the belt to boltface dimension. Try firing a few times only neck sizing and see if the head separation stops.

 

[Velvet]

Gages space off the belt, so they don't really tell you much about your chamber beyond the belt to boltface dimension. Try firing a few times only neck sizing and see if the head separation stops.

it will surely stop it. Hornady brass took me 4 runs to achieve maximum expansion. (annealed after each shot).
good luck

 

[Paper boy]

This begs the obvious question ... which is the correct way? I've been reloading for my AR's for years and therefore have FL resized every case after every firing. I am only just now getting into bolt action shooting and subsequently, reloading for them. In some of my research I've also come to question the need and effectiveness for bumping the shoulder, and I'm not at all convinced it's necessary, ever. I have a Forster FL sizing die for my wildcat 7mm SST, but I also have the Lee neck collet die. So how should I proceed once I begin reloading this cartridge?

Case length, seating the bullet close to the lands, consentricity of bullet.
If all this, including proper load of course, it should work out. Please keep me posted on your results.

 

[KineKilla]

Back at it tonight. Took some of my 4x fired (FL sized each time) that measured 2.1215 or so, resized several until I got a nice fit in my chamber.

2.1215 would close but not happily.
2.1205 would close but still too tight.
2.1190 was a nice fit.
2.1185 is a nice fit with a little insurance.

All measurements were taken more than once tolerance was .0005 or less.

My once fired brass from a recent hunt measured 2.185 after firing. I'm going to neck size only the next small batch I get then measure and test fit. If they fit well, I will shoot them and do it again.

Have to see if the 2.12 max I was getting is consistent and I want to do it using fired brass stretched to length instead of oversized brass sized to length. Probably doesn't matter, dimensions are what they are regardless of how they got there.

Dies are set at 2.1185 currently and that will have to do until I do some more shooting.


Also, cut a piece of once fired brass that appeared to have some damage I suspected being from case stretch. Looks pretty good inside but there is a definite scar on the exterior that you can feel with a fingernail. Not sure what that's all about.

 

[Paper boy]

Back at it tonight. Took some of my 4x fired (FL sized each time) that measured 2.1215 or so, resized several until I got a nice fit in my chamber.

2.1215 would close but not happily.
2.1205 would close but still too tight.
2.1190 was a nice fit.
2.1185 is a nice fit with a little insurance.

All measurements were taken more than once tolerance was .0005 or less.

My once fired brass from a recent hunt measured 2.185 after firing. I'm going to neck size only the next small batch I get then measure and test fit. If they fit well, I will shoot them and do it again.

Have to see if the 2.12 max I was getting is consistent and I want to do it using fired brass stretched to length instead of oversized brass sized to length. Probably doesn't matter, dimensions are what they are regardless of how they got there.

Dies are set at 2.1185 currently and that will have to do until I do some more shooting.


Also, cut a piece of once fired brass that appeared to have some damage I suspected being from case stretch. Looks pretty good inside but there is a definite scar on the exterior that you can feel with a fingernail. Not sure what that's all about.

Interested in seeing the results. Are you going to try thr other sizing methods as well. No sence in only going 1/4 of the way.

 

[KineKilla]

Interested in seeing the results. Are you going to try thr other sizing methods as well. No sence in only going 1/4 of the way.

What other methods are you referring to? The collet die that sizes all the way to the belt?

I may go that route someday. I've never really had the desire to load brass up to 20x as they claim. I think it would take me a lifetime to get me there as well.

I'd be fine being able to reload brass the 4-5 times I have always done as long as it's safe. My problem with just loading over and over is that you don't really know you've gone too far until you do.

 

[Paper boy]

OK

 

[KineKilla]

I've also sent an email to the maker of that collet die with some additional questions. I like the concept and simplicity.

I may end up with one just because.

 

[Paper boy]

What other methods are you referring to? The collet die that sizes all the way to the belt?

I may go that route someday. I've never really had the desire to load brass up to 20x as they claim. I think it would take me a lifetime to get me there as well.

I'd be fine being able to reload brass the 4-5 times I have always done as long as it's safe. My problem with just loading over and over is that you don't really know you've gone too far until you do.

As in full length sizing

 

[Paper boy]

Lee makes a caliber specific collet die for under $30. Great die.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Back at it tonight. Took some of my 4x fired (FL sized each time) that measured 2.1215 or so, resized several until I got a nice fit in my chamber.

2.1215 would close but not happily.
2.1205 would close but still too tight.
2.1190 was a nice fit.
2.1185 is a nice fit with a little insurance.

That should serve you well. Your in that. 002-.003 bump range. Over the years, most of my 7RM brass would show I light ring above the belt on my first firing. Found it was the initial stretch. Not detrimental as long as I didn't force the shoulder back with an overly aggressive fl sizing. That ring would be there for the life of the brass yet could load it until necks cracked or primer pockets went.

 

[J E Custom]

I just finished reading this thread:

To neck size or full length size???

BH, your notion that "there is absolutely no such thing as ONLY bumping the shoulder as implied" seems a risky declaration. Do you think it isn't possible? You might remember my mentioning of testing loads for 'MyMax'. I always do this, and it's here that I produce 3 cases which I send to...

www.longrangehunting.com

In many of the posts, users mention "properly set up dies". What specifically does this mean?

A little back story on myself...I have been reloading for a number of years now. No competition shooting or anything like that but lots of hunting here in the west.

Recently I had some cases split (case head separation) on my 7mm mag after only 3-4 firings. I've always loaded for this rifle the same way (once load development was done, which didn't take long). Nothing extreme, well within max published load, shoots fantastic in this rifle.

160gr Accubond over 61gr of RL-22 using Federal or Winchester primers.

So, I begin researching why this may be happening. Thin brass (bad batch), excessive chamber specs, over working the cases, etc. all come up as likely culprits.

I have always FL sized my brass after each firing. Many suggested I back my dies out so that I am just "bumping" the shoulder back about .002" or so. Fair enough, easy to do.

The thing that has me really hung up is that my fired brass measures 2.1185avg. During the sizing and "bumping" process it grows to as much as 2.124 before I make contact with the shoulder and it begins to shrink. So in my mind, the stretching (damage) is already done before I even get the neck sized.

New brass measures 2.101, btw.

So, I buy a neck sizing die. I haven't used it yet but people are recommending I not use it for hunting loads...back to square 1.

BTW, the rifle will close on cases 2.120 and maybe even higher, I ran out of fired brass before I got to the top end of its chamber dimensions.

So am I supposed to be bumping shoulders .002 +/- from my fired case size (2.1185) or from the max my chamber will accept or from the max length my die makes them become (2.124) during the sizing process?

So confused. Sorry for the long post but if I've learned anything from forums, it's that more information usually generates better help.

Thanks.

The statement about setting up dies is a well debated subject, and the simple answer is to size the cases to best fit the chamber. The belted case problem you have is the same everyone has, Over sizing.

Belted cases have under sized case body's and when fired they expand a lot depending on the chamber. After the first firing, the dies should readjusted to only sizes enough to fit the chamber. At this stage they will head space on the shoulder and minimize case stretch. (The reason for the case head separation).

J E CUSTOM

 

[Velvet]

The statement about setting up dies is a well debated subject, and the simple answer is to size the cases to best fit the chamber. The belted case problem you have is the same everyone has, Over sizing.

Belted cases have under sized case body's and when fired they expand a lot depending on the chamber. After the first firing, the dies should readjusted to only sizes enough to fit the chamber. At this stage they will head space on the shoulder and minimize case stretch. (The reason for the case head separation).

J E CUSTOM

Crystal clear

 

[KineKilla]

Yes. Well said J E.