You can find alot of used Razor AMGs as well for under 2k. Good weight for hunting and feature rich. I was a little underwhelmed by the glass, but it's still really good and I doubt you would have any problems whatsoever in legal shooting hours.
Scope Decision
- Thread starter Spilks
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Topshelfbv
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 127
I have a NF ATACR in my Lapua and love it, but to be Honest for the money my Burris XTR II FFP is the best scope I have ever purchased. There is nothing I can say bad about it and the warranty is impeccable. I would rank it with the Razor as far as clarity.
Buzzsaw
Well-Known Member
Rudolph Ferdinand
Well-Known Member
How far do you think in yards you will be taking the game? I have shot a caribou @ 100 yards. This simple rifle scope was chosen because it gave me what I needed in a scope...plus the 300 Weatherby MK V is not a lite rifle, so for me, this scope for me what I needed it will do the job. One can always purchase a much higher priced scope and it will do the job but with added weight.
Steiner txi 5-25 is has amazing glass comparable to $3500 scopes and great features and turrets. I have one of those and a nightforce atacr 5-25 and vortex 5-25. Night force and Steiner way better than the vortex. Steiner is very comparable to the night force. Will be getting another one.
KyCarl
Well-Known Member
"Have one that's been on the shelf for 9 months after using it once, replaced it with a Vortex Razor HD gen II."
Do you want to trade it? I have a brand new Vortex Razor gen II EBR 2C MOA
4.5 X 27 X 56 Box Papers Decal..If you like them that much? I'll trade Brand New for Used!!
I don't think it compares to the NF!.
Do you want to trade it? I have a brand new Vortex Razor gen II EBR 2C MOA
4.5 X 27 X 56 Box Papers Decal..If you like them that much? I'll trade Brand New for Used!!
I don't think it compares to the NF!.
Buzzsaw
Well-Known Member
all these scopes yall are suggesting weigh a ton and are meant for dedicated long range PRS match shooting, not hunting. the rifle weighs enough.
I wouldnt go less than 20 power top end. 24 or 25 is better.
I have a few leupold vx 3s and Zeiss Conquest hd 5-25 is amazing. For $900!! I got a used one as new for $500!!! Whats to think about? Zeiss has a lifetime guarantee. Buy anybodys used scope and if you have a problem with it send it back to Zeiss and they'll fix it or replace it. No-brainer. Nightforce and March are all awesome but it depends on your price range what you want to spend and what you need to spend. When the Mirage is up in the heat of the day all of the Scopes look like crap. Though my swarovski el binos somehow miraculously almost eliminates mirage. I dont know how they do that. Comparing a $1000 scope on 8.5x and my binos at 8.5x is like 2 different worlds.
I have a few leupold vx 3s and Zeiss Conquest hd 5-25 is amazing. For $900!! I got a used one as new for $500!!! Whats to think about? Zeiss has a lifetime guarantee. Buy anybodys used scope and if you have a problem with it send it back to Zeiss and they'll fix it or replace it. No-brainer. Nightforce and March are all awesome but it depends on your price range what you want to spend and what you need to spend. When the Mirage is up in the heat of the day all of the Scopes look like crap. Though my swarovski el binos somehow miraculously almost eliminates mirage. I dont know how they do that. Comparing a $1000 scope on 8.5x and my binos at 8.5x is like 2 different worlds.
johnlittletree
Well-Known Member
Unless you want to over pay like 99% of people do you need to a list.
List all of the features you think you want. Don't say need because people on this sight are not far off from politicians when it comes differentiating "want from need".
Next select at 3-5 brands with a good track record historically of producing a great product.
Now select a model from each company that checks all the boxes on that.
Now select a model above and bellow that model you just put on the list under each brand.
Decide if demo or refurbished scopes will make the list?
Now start hunting for a deal.
In terms of what you "need" Even with out looking at the responses this sight will prob. be recommending a lot of NightForce, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski nothing wrong with any of those but your chances of getting a even a remotely decent deal not even a good deal is almost 0%. All of the bellow are well under $1000 and deals happen routinely on them that sweeten the pot. If you can not kill a whitetail of Elk at 1000m with any of the bellow the fault is yours not the scope.
I will say this if you are buying a scope from a company that does not design or build their own scopes it is not smart to pay a premium for it. These companies come and go historically all the time. They might even have a great guarantee and a really good product but will they be around to honor it 20 or 30 years from now. Light builds plenty of scopes out of Japan for many different companies and very few of them are original designs. The cosmetics on the outside and the level of imperfections in the polished glass are the main things that change! The prices are like the wild west and retail price point does not track 1:1 with quality, customer service after the sale, or design elements. Most people fail to understand how price is set from a marketing perspective. Price is very flexible and not at all determined by what it cost to build an object. It is based more on the market segment they are attempting to market too and where in the market they want to position their product. The problem with scopes is you can not look under the hood really. Even with electronics trying to find meaningful info pre-purchase is tricky. So people toss money at it hoping that if they spend enough they will get a quality product. Taking a company at their word on marketing positioning is really foolish but it is done a lot in scopes, rifles, electronics, camera optics, musical instrument and tools. These industries have traditionally conspired to keep their customers in the dark on most of what they sell. That effectively eliminates a customers ability to spend money based on intelligent reasoning.
I have one Sightron Scope that is close to 20 years old and fantastic I use it for F-T/R. I have some Burris scopes that are 30 years old and going strong. Leupold more of the same! My oldest son has an SWFA that is at least 3-4 years old F-T/R. My Weaver Grand Slams and Super Slams are starting to get some mileage as well. All of the above were under $300 and some of them where under $200. Fastward to today and all of them would cost me $500-$1500 to replace. Not because the quality of the design or construction has gone up but because the prices have gone up while the value of the dollar has gone done and energy cost and taxes have gone up globally. You can often save $200 to $500 dollars off of a scope waiting and shopping for months for a deal and then when on comes being quick on the trigger!
If you are going to pay big money for a scope stay with brands that have been around for at minimum of 30 years. Made in America, Germany, Japan. You are almost always going to be better off long term buying from a company that has their own factory where they at the very least design and assembly their own product with quality glass from the world market place. I do not think anyone makes their own glass in house today they all buy off the world market place.
Also think about the weight of the optics and their mounting. Nothing is as stupendously funny as when guys say they want to build a mountain rifle and they they stick a heavy barrel, heavy bottom metal, insanely heavy scope, rings and base and a bipod on it then split hairs over the weight of the stock or the action or plan to have the action machined to lighten it. In fact this site is notorious at this point for people going with a short action to save 4 ounces or less and then ending up in the OAL limitation closet where they can not load their VLD bullets into their short action super magnum of choices and get full advertised velocity or accuracy out of the cartridge or rifle due to OAL limitations of the short action magazine box. Never take advice from anyone that is in the market place to sell you products. Never go with anything trendy! Never think you have the best of anything even if you tossed insane money at it! Never take an internet expert as anything more than an idiot even me and do your own research. For every really brilliant person on this sight their are prob. 500 idiots that parrot the the industry propaganda and are too biased or too clueless to admit they did something stupid in selecting parts and cartridges for their "dream rifle"! People like to look like big shots and like to check all the boxes on what ever is popular at the time and often empirical data as to what is "best" in the market place is absent! Which means it falls to testimonials or to what little data we have from the equipment list used by winners in shooting competitions which has almost no direct crossover to hunting.
A good indicator of how much systemic lying goes on in various industries is the recent Diesel-Gate that caught more than one company with their pants down. You had top down systemic company wide corruption in multiple companies to cheat emissions testing. If you do not think the same sort of behavior is likewise in scope glass and rifle barrels and action designs you need to go back to school. Not that many years ago a bunch of Lothar Walther rifle barrels where in the market place that where counter fit and they where not just being sold on Ebay they where being sold by gunsmiths all over the world. People will lie given the chance every-time money is to profit margin is at risk. People will often push what ever they can get a great deal on in terms of their markup. There are more companies selling barrels than their are companies making barrels! LOL Same thing goes for scopes, rings and bases! LOL The average person does not have the knowledge, skill or equipment to put all the brands to the test in every model that a company is selling! Companies assume that is true and will always be true!
List all of the features you think you want. Don't say need because people on this sight are not far off from politicians when it comes differentiating "want from need".
Next select at 3-5 brands with a good track record historically of producing a great product.
Now select a model from each company that checks all the boxes on that.
Now select a model above and bellow that model you just put on the list under each brand.
Decide if demo or refurbished scopes will make the list?
Now start hunting for a deal.
In terms of what you "need" Even with out looking at the responses this sight will prob. be recommending a lot of NightForce, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski nothing wrong with any of those but your chances of getting a even a remotely decent deal not even a good deal is almost 0%. All of the bellow are well under $1000 and deals happen routinely on them that sweeten the pot. If you can not kill a whitetail of Elk at 1000m with any of the bellow the fault is yours not the scope.
- 1 Sightron 10-50×60 SIII LR Mil Dot Riflescope. ...
- 2 Vortex Optics Viper PST 6-24×50 Ffp Riflescope. ...
- 3 Burris XTR II 3X-15X-50mm Riflescope. ...
- 4 SWFA SS 3-15×42 Riflescope. ...
- 5 Vortex Optics Viper VHS-4310 Riflescope.
I will say this if you are buying a scope from a company that does not design or build their own scopes it is not smart to pay a premium for it. These companies come and go historically all the time. They might even have a great guarantee and a really good product but will they be around to honor it 20 or 30 years from now. Light builds plenty of scopes out of Japan for many different companies and very few of them are original designs. The cosmetics on the outside and the level of imperfections in the polished glass are the main things that change! The prices are like the wild west and retail price point does not track 1:1 with quality, customer service after the sale, or design elements. Most people fail to understand how price is set from a marketing perspective. Price is very flexible and not at all determined by what it cost to build an object. It is based more on the market segment they are attempting to market too and where in the market they want to position their product. The problem with scopes is you can not look under the hood really. Even with electronics trying to find meaningful info pre-purchase is tricky. So people toss money at it hoping that if they spend enough they will get a quality product. Taking a company at their word on marketing positioning is really foolish but it is done a lot in scopes, rifles, electronics, camera optics, musical instrument and tools. These industries have traditionally conspired to keep their customers in the dark on most of what they sell. That effectively eliminates a customers ability to spend money based on intelligent reasoning.
I have one Sightron Scope that is close to 20 years old and fantastic I use it for F-T/R. I have some Burris scopes that are 30 years old and going strong. Leupold more of the same! My oldest son has an SWFA that is at least 3-4 years old F-T/R. My Weaver Grand Slams and Super Slams are starting to get some mileage as well. All of the above were under $300 and some of them where under $200. Fastward to today and all of them would cost me $500-$1500 to replace. Not because the quality of the design or construction has gone up but because the prices have gone up while the value of the dollar has gone done and energy cost and taxes have gone up globally. You can often save $200 to $500 dollars off of a scope waiting and shopping for months for a deal and then when on comes being quick on the trigger!
If you are going to pay big money for a scope stay with brands that have been around for at minimum of 30 years. Made in America, Germany, Japan. You are almost always going to be better off long term buying from a company that has their own factory where they at the very least design and assembly their own product with quality glass from the world market place. I do not think anyone makes their own glass in house today they all buy off the world market place.
Also think about the weight of the optics and their mounting. Nothing is as stupendously funny as when guys say they want to build a mountain rifle and they they stick a heavy barrel, heavy bottom metal, insanely heavy scope, rings and base and a bipod on it then split hairs over the weight of the stock or the action or plan to have the action machined to lighten it. In fact this site is notorious at this point for people going with a short action to save 4 ounces or less and then ending up in the OAL limitation closet where they can not load their VLD bullets into their short action super magnum of choices and get full advertised velocity or accuracy out of the cartridge or rifle due to OAL limitations of the short action magazine box. Never take advice from anyone that is in the market place to sell you products. Never go with anything trendy! Never think you have the best of anything even if you tossed insane money at it! Never take an internet expert as anything more than an idiot even me and do your own research. For every really brilliant person on this sight their are prob. 500 idiots that parrot the the industry propaganda and are too biased or too clueless to admit they did something stupid in selecting parts and cartridges for their "dream rifle"! People like to look like big shots and like to check all the boxes on what ever is popular at the time and often empirical data as to what is "best" in the market place is absent! Which means it falls to testimonials or to what little data we have from the equipment list used by winners in shooting competitions which has almost no direct crossover to hunting.
A good indicator of how much systemic lying goes on in various industries is the recent Diesel-Gate that caught more than one company with their pants down. You had top down systemic company wide corruption in multiple companies to cheat emissions testing. If you do not think the same sort of behavior is likewise in scope glass and rifle barrels and action designs you need to go back to school. Not that many years ago a bunch of Lothar Walther rifle barrels where in the market place that where counter fit and they where not just being sold on Ebay they where being sold by gunsmiths all over the world. People will lie given the chance every-time money is to profit margin is at risk. People will often push what ever they can get a great deal on in terms of their markup. There are more companies selling barrels than their are companies making barrels! LOL Same thing goes for scopes, rings and bases! LOL The average person does not have the knowledge, skill or equipment to put all the brands to the test in every model that a company is selling! Companies assume that is true and will always be true!
Danehunter
Well-Known Member
The Sarovski mentioned in P. 1 of this thread has only a 1" tube so not so much turret elevation.
MEOPTA, especially for the money, is excellent. Dunno if they have MOA/MOA
TRACT is a good deal but heavy.
BUSHNELL Long Range Hunter in MOA is good for the money if your budget is lower.
Nightforce ATACR is considered by ex SF operators as a top scope.
SWFA SS 3 - 15 x 42 is what I have on a Browning X-Bolt Pro and is great for the money. They have no advertising and no dealers so you save a lot & get very good glass. They are extremely tough, good enough to handle the reverse recoil of air rifles.
I'll assume you want something at least 20X at the top power.
Eric B.
MEOPTA, especially for the money, is excellent. Dunno if they have MOA/MOA
TRACT is a good deal but heavy.
BUSHNELL Long Range Hunter in MOA is good for the money if your budget is lower.
Nightforce ATACR is considered by ex SF operators as a top scope.
SWFA SS 3 - 15 x 42 is what I have on a Browning X-Bolt Pro and is great for the money. They have no advertising and no dealers so you save a lot & get very good glass. They are extremely tough, good enough to handle the reverse recoil of air rifles.
I'll assume you want something at least 20X at the top power.
Eric B.
This is going to cause a stink, last summer I changed out all my long range scopes, I went with shepherd on 6.5/06 got brs1 4x16 very fast shooting and range finding , it shoots out to 1000 yrs with deadly accuracy only draw back is you have got to match velocity to reticle. On 26 nosler went with brs moa reticle shoots very well and also deadly accurate past 1000 yrs. Glass is very good, has locking adj turrets and both are in first focal plane if that's your thing, and the price won't shell shock you. The one on my 6.5/06 has been abused it's my coyote gun dropped slammed banged run over and has not lost zero. They are on internet and if you call or email them they will respond quickly. I've used all the big name scopes and this is the one I feel is the best for price.
JMyrkle
Member
I have a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x40mm with mil dot reticle and mil CIT turrets and love it. It fails back to zero everytime. I am partial to mil dots because that's what we were trained on in the military. They also offer that scope with an MOA reticle and MOA turrets.
snox801
Well-Known Member
Man if you are swapping Nightforce for vortex I'll make the same offer. I like vortex for sure as I can also get the discount. In fact I try to always support them as they donate a scope every year to go atop a rifle I supply to be auctioned for Purple Heart hunts. Great scope and company. That being said I'm not sure they are in the same boat as Nightforce.
Only drawback on NF for me is weight. When I need a lighter one I look for vortex.
Only drawback on NF for me is weight. When I need a lighter one I look for vortex.
I would look at the March. I love my 2.5 X 25 in 42 mm, MOA. It is light compared to Nightforce, a bit shorter and is always on target. I don't think the glass is as clear as my Swaro, but I know when I dial that thing, the bullet will show up on target if I've done my part. Going on 5 years now since I mounted it on my 7mm WSM Kelbly Custom and it has always returned to a perfect zero at 200.
If you go with 2k$ you will find some really nice hunting scopes out there.
If you go with 2k$ you will find some really nice hunting scopes out there.
