MN Hunter
Well-Known Member
Anyone have an opinion on the Savage 12 FTR .308. Thinking it might make for a good practice rifle - may also want to play around with some F class shooting.
Savage 12 FTR ???
- Thread starter MN Hunter
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milanuk
Well-Known Member
Not something I'd want to haul around hunting (other than maybe a blind/stand) very much.
They work fairly well for F-Class.
Then again... I might be a wee bit biased.
They work fairly well for F-Class.
Then again... I might be a wee bit biased.
winmagman
Well-Known Member
Yeah you might be.....but that's what comes from success
Chris
MN Hunter
Well-Known Member
Ok now I'm curious - malinuk - I think I need to hear your story - I'm guessing it is going to be quite interesting.
milanuk
Well-Known Member
Ah... short version is I shoot with a few other guys on a factory-sponsored F/TR team for Savage, using 12 F/TR and/or 12 Palma rifles, and we've enjoyed a couple good years with them. The rifles shoot. On the off chance you get one that has problems (it does happen, even to us) Savage has been very good about making things right.
MN Hunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply and Pardon my ignornce.
I am in the process of joining a gun club where the shoot both F class and Palma.
Along with the gun what else do I need to get started? I don't know how serious I will get - but it sure sounds like a lot of fun.
Thanks for your time.
I am in the process of joining a gun club where the shoot both F class and Palma.
Along with the gun what else do I need to get started? I don't know how serious I will get - but it sure sounds like a lot of fun.
Thanks for your time.
milanuk
Well-Known Member
Well... besides a scope for the gun, you'll need a bipod, a rear bag of some sort, something to put between you and the ground, and something to see the targets when scoring for others. Some ranges might let you snuggle up next to the shooter and use your rifle scope to score with, but some don't (often there just isn't room on the firing point for two). Bare minimum, any pair of binocs or cheap spotting scope on a short tripod will work.
Later if you get serious, a higher quality spotting scope on a stand made specifically for High Power Rifle shooting will be worth your while - they can be used while shooting to check the mirage and/or keep an eye on whats happening on the targets on either side of you i.e. if three of the shooters next to you all dropped a shoot out downwind, you may want to hold up and re-assess what you think is going on.
Later if you get serious, a higher quality spotting scope on a stand made specifically for High Power Rifle shooting will be worth your while - they can be used while shooting to check the mirage and/or keep an eye on whats happening on the targets on either side of you i.e. if three of the shooters next to you all dropped a shoot out downwind, you may want to hold up and re-assess what you think is going on.
TargetTerror
Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2009
- Messages
- 23
I have one and it is AWESOME! I wanted an out-of-the-box rifle I could shoot F class comps in and know that when the bullet wasn't in the 10 ring, it was me and not the rifle. I got that with the FTR. With pretty much no load development I can hold the 10 ring at 600 yards (1MOA). The trigger is sweet, though it does have the accutrigger "safety trigger", so be advised. And with the 30 inch barrel, I'm getting just under 2800 fps with a 175 SMK over 45 grains IMR 4064 in Lake City surplus brass and a CCI primer.
Bear in mind that this gun is BIG and HEAVY. The barrel is HUGE and very long, so the whole thing is very front heavy. This is strictly a range rifle. On the flip side, recoil is completely negligible, and a full 60 shot match does nothing to my shoulder.
The only negative is the cheek rest, which is literally the rectangular piece from Choate fugly tactical scope. I don't mind the plastic feel as much as I mind the rest pushing my head over 1/2 inch. I have to cock my head to the side to see the scope, and then everything look slanted. I"m strongly considering putting a Kartsen cheek piece on it.
Bear in mind that this gun is BIG and HEAVY. The barrel is HUGE and very long, so the whole thing is very front heavy. This is strictly a range rifle. On the flip side, recoil is completely negligible, and a full 60 shot match does nothing to my shoulder.
The only negative is the cheek rest, which is literally the rectangular piece from Choate fugly tactical scope. I don't mind the plastic feel as much as I mind the rest pushing my head over 1/2 inch. I have to cock my head to the side to see the scope, and then everything look slanted. I"m strongly considering putting a Kartsen cheek piece on it.
bwaites
Well-Known Member
Milanuk is being more than modest. That team he shoots on just won the World FT/R championships in England this summer, and he has had more than a little part in the teams success, and a good deal of individual success as well.
They shoot basically off the shelf Savage rifles.
Bill
They shoot basically off the shelf Savage rifles.
Bill
I am not saying anything here....but I am just wondering....just maybe....those off the shelf Savage rifles they are shooting might get a little extra attention to detail while in the factory. I have to admit...it does make for good marketing.
And this coming from a Savage 12 F/TR owner.
bwaites
Well-Known Member
I am not saying anything here....but I am just wondering....just maybe....those off the shelf Savage rifles they are shooting might get a little extra attention to detail while in the factory. I have to admit...it does make for good marketing.
And this coming from a Savage 12 F/TR owner.
As I understand it, they don't. The guys may play with triggers a bit, and since they shoot so much they probably go through barrels faster than most, but they aren't even bedded as I understand it.
From what I've discussed, they really are no better or worse than what anyone could expect buying one off the shelf. If someone buys an F/TR and isn't happy, Savage will do what they can to make it better, and I have read about someone who had to change barrels a couple of times before he got one he could live with, (if I remember the story right he was shooting the heaviest bullets, not typical F class fare.)
I don't own a Savage, though I intend to get one of the Tactical .308's because I want a detachable mag, but they shoot well right off the shelf by all accounts.
Bill
milanuk
Well-Known Member
I wish.
To my knowledge, Savage doesn't have much of a 'custom' shop in the way that you or I would normally think of it (like Remington used to have), so not really any place for them to do any 'special' work on our guns. And I've had to send back a barrel and had to pick through a couple others, so if they're 'cherry-picking' our stuff, someone needs their eyes checked.
We do get barrels pretty much when we ask for them... but they are factory, thru and thru. I thought we had them talked into making some "prototype" barrels for us to 'test' (i.e. non-catalog twist/contour/throat) but that hasn't gone anywhere for a while now.
Pretty much anything non-standard on our rifles is our own doing, on our own time and dime. Mine is bedded, and has a Karsten cheekpiece and a Limbsavr recoil pad (more for LOP than recoil) and SSS bolt handle. John polished his action on a buffer til it shines like chrome + a buttplate, Stan has a custom buttplate + bedding... and Darrell's is completely stock, ugly Choate cheekpiece and no bedding.
I *wish* it had a SSS T&T job and Evolution trigger, and a custom hand-lapped barrel with a chamber of my choosing, with a contour of my choosing, and a stock of my preference... but it is what it is. Not sure it would shoot much better, but I do like to tinker as much as the next guy...
Well, thanks for the info...that would be nice. I just recently purchased a 12F/TR and am looking forward to getting it out to the range this spring. I joined the ORA with year, so I would like to get into some long range competition shooting, maybe F-Class or Precision. I put a nightforce 12-42BR on it, so if what you guys are saying is true....I should have a decent rig for the job.
Good to know about the barrels. Now, I just have to work on a load for it. This is my first .308 and I have been told by my shooting instructors to go with 45-46g Varget, lapua brass with Berger 155s. Does this sound like the right track? What loads does team Savage shoot?
Cheers.
milanuk
Well-Known Member
Berger 155 VLDs shoot like a house-afire, but usually need to be into the lands a bit (5-10 thou) for best accuracy. Berger 155.5 BT 'Fullbore' bullets shoot at least as well and you can load them 40-50 thou off the lands and not have to fart around with chasing the lands - and they shoot measurably flatter (1/2-3/4 moa @ 1k) than the VLDs. Rumor has it that Berger has a 155 'hybrid' in the works...
Lapua brass, Fed 210M, and 46.5-46.8gn Varget usually nets me about 2940-2960fps. About the same amount of N150 shoots almost identical - in case Varget becomes unobtanium again. My loads are actually the milder ones used on the team... some folks run up over 3050-3100fps with their loads - and somehow are actually able to reload their cases?!? Not sure how that works One guy has been playing with 8208XBR, claiming similar velocities with less (one full grain) powder. Mebbe, mebbe not. Varget and N150 are going to be *awfully* hard to beat, in my book.
If you're in Oregon, try to get to Douglas Ridge (just outside Portland) for the Burden Memorial LR Regional over Memorial Day weekend, or the Pacific Northwest F-Class match the second weekend or so of August. A deceptively mild range that has some hard-to-read (kicks my butt) conditions, but very nicely kept and some great people there.
HTH,
Monte
Lapua brass, Fed 210M, and 46.5-46.8gn Varget usually nets me about 2940-2960fps. About the same amount of N150 shoots almost identical - in case Varget becomes unobtanium again. My loads are actually the milder ones used on the team... some folks run up over 3050-3100fps with their loads - and somehow are actually able to reload their cases?!? Not sure how that works
One guy has been playing with 8208XBR, claiming similar velocities with less (one full grain) powder. Mebbe, mebbe not. Varget and N150 are going to be *awfully* hard to beat, in my book.If you're in Oregon, try to get to Douglas Ridge (just outside Portland) for the Burden Memorial LR Regional over Memorial Day weekend, or the Pacific Northwest F-Class match the second weekend or so of August. A deceptively mild range that has some hard-to-read (kicks my butt) conditions, but very nicely kept and some great people there.
HTH,
Monte
