Savage 111 LRH 6.5-284 Loading Questions

[ShootnMathews]

Brent.
When I first started loading for this gun I did not have all the comparator gauges. In July this year I got the hornady headspace and bullet comparator kits. I had notice for a while that some cases seemed to chamber tighter than others but had no way to measure why. I had my die adjusted down until the die touched the shell holder. After getting the comparator kit I compared a sized case to a fired case and they measured the same. So I adjusted my die down farther and cammed over pretty stiff on it and now I get a bump of .0025" - .003". Which is good in my book.

I have tried load working the bergers again after finding this and still have the flyer problem. It is not always the third shot. It varies on all three shots out of a 3 shot group. Maybe one out of ten groups will be a nice clover leaf or sometimes a one holer. But the other 8 - 9 groups will be 2 in he same hole or touching and the 3 rd 1" - 2" away. And generally in the same direction according to load. For instance if I shoot 5 groups of the same charge weight the flyer will be in the same direction each group. If I change the charge the flyer position will change. Same with depth. But again if I load several groups identical the flyer from each group will land in almost the same spot. It's very weird and frustrating.

 

[BrentM]

OK, gotcha. Well, Bergers aren't the answer to everything so stick with what works.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Sounds lines bedding or action screw tension problem.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Sounds lines bedding or action screw tension problem.

It's possible, but if it was I can't see why it would shoot a bughole with the Nosler bullet. Seems like bedding and torque would effect all bullets and loads.

Action screws are torqued with a fat wrench to 45 and the recoil lug fits very tight. Supposedly the accustock does not require bedding.

 

[BrentM]

I have had 3 6.5-284's. 2 with accu stock and 1 on a tuperware. All shot .5 or better with 45 in lb torque and no bedding. In my humble opinion there is no reason to keep beating the dead horse on this rifle shooting bergers. Noslers work very well with this rifle and for the distance this rifle is going to be used I don't believe there is a need to shoot anything else. Noslers are awesome bullets regardless of the low BC compared to the Matrix or Berger. But 600 or less should be of no concern if it were my rifle and they shot well. The velocities and high BC really start to shine at distance greater than that. Heck I would take a 260 or creed and be happy for 500 yard shots. My buddies 26" 260 savage shoots 3s at 2810. Deadly at 500!

 

[JoeS1044]

I have had 3 6.5-284's. 2 with accu stock and 1 on a tuperware. All shot .5 or better with 45 in lb torque and no bedding. In my humble opinion there is no reason to keep beating the dead horse on this rifle shooting bergers. Noslers work very well with this rifle and for the distance this rifle is going to be used I don't believe there is a need to shoot anything else. Noslers are awesome bullets regardless of the low BC compared to the Matrix or Berger. But 600 or less should be of no concern if it were my rifle and they shot well. The velocities and high BC really start to shine at distance greater than that. Heck I would take a 260 or creed and be happy for 500 yard shots. My buddies 26" 260 savage shoots 3s at 2810. Deadly at 500!

Im with you brent his gun is amazing when it shoots those nosler sure they dont have the BC of others but the old saying dont fix it if it aint broke applies here that is phenomenal groups to not use that bullet

 

[BrentM]

Not sure which model he is using but the AB is 509 and BT is 456. At 600 with the AB compared to Berger there is 148 fps and 175 ft lbs difference. AB is 1040 ft lbs.

This is standard data processing with 2800 fps. More than enough umph for hunting at those ranges.

I have seen guys have very good look with the Amax too. Again, what is the intent of the rifle? If the bullet is still flying fast enough and hitting hard enough to do the work then use it right? I think knowing the limitations of the entire system is more important than putting a square peg in a round hole.

Happy hunting.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Not sure which model he is using but the AB is 509 and BT is 456. At 600 with the AB compared to Berger there is 148 fps and 175 ft lbs difference. AB is 1040 ft lbs.

This is standard data processing with 2800 fps. More than enough umph for hunting at those ranges.

I have seen guys have very good look with the Amax too. Again, what is the intent of the rifle? If the bullet is still flying fast enough and hitting hard enough to do the work then use it right? I think knowing the limitations of the entire system is more important than putting a square peg in a round hole.

Happy hunting.

First, Thanks for the kind comments, all of you. The gun sure does like this load. Which is:
Lapua brass
210M primer
50.2 grains of H4831SC
Nosler 140 grain Ballistic tip (.509 BC according to noslers site)
.043" jump

At 500 yards 2820 fps fits my drop. First chance I get I will run it through a friends chrono to verify. I'd love to stretch this load out but I have to wait until my buddy goes to the 1000 yards spot here because he is the one with permission to shoot there.

I will stick with this load for a while because of the incredible accuracy it's getting, but I will not give up on finding a better long range load. The Bal. Tip requires 1800 fps to expand which puts my max range around 550-600 yards. I bought this gun with a mule deer trip out west in mind sometime in the next 3 years and I'd really like to get to 800 yards. I don't want to drive 20 hours and spend thousands to be 200 yards short on range on a trophy. Hopefully next year Berger will release a hybrid 6.5 hunting. This gun apparently does not like VLD design so I won't mess with other brands of that design. Whenever I can get a hold of some 130 Nosler AB LR I will give those a shot. Higher BC and faster velocity + they will expand down to 1300 fps. Those a qualities combined should give me sufficient energy and expansion at 800 yards and maybe 1000. But for here, where in 95% of where I hunt the ridges are about 400 yards apart and the mountains steep. So shooting across most shots are 300 to 400 with occasional shots 500- 600 if you're shooting at an angle, this load should perform flawlessly.

Again, thanks for the kind words everyone. Good hunting to all. When I get my hands on some new bullets to try I will be back with more info. I think the regular ACcubond may expand at 1300 fps. If so I may give those a go. Their profile is identical to the Bal. Tip and so is the BC. So I may luck out and just pop those in with no load work and get identical groups to this Bal. Tip load.

Jared

*edit. Just checked. The regular accubond requires 1800 fps also. Only the accubond long range will expand at 1300. I believe bergers only require 1000 fps, which is another reason for the desire to shoot them.

 

[BrentM]

You have time to try some things then.

 

[SteveBurton]

ShootnMathews,

I was reading an article on the 6.5x47 Lapua round and saw this.

"Mysterious Flyers Noticed -- Traced to Non-Uniform Neckwalls
With this rifle, there were some challenges early on -- I noticed that I was getting an occasional, unexplainable "flyer". This happened a couple times in matches. I would feel I had a sure 10, and it would pop out to an 8. That made me suspicious so I turned those cases upside-down in my ammo box for later inspection. When I carefully measured the "flyer" cases with a tubing micrometer, I found that the necks were a bit thicker than the rest and were NOT uniform. On some of the "flyer" cases the neckwalls had as much as .002" total variance (one side was thicker than the other, e.g. .015" vs. .013"). [Editor's note: Ken did the smart thing--segregate the brass that gave the flyers. We recommend this simple step for other calibers as well. You can mark the "flyer" brass with a Sharpie at the range, and measure them when you get home with a Neckwall Thickness Gauge.]

The obvious answer was to go back and turn, very lightly (to ~0.013), all of the case necks. Now I no longer have unexplainable "flyers", just the ones that the "loose nut behind the butt plate" generates. One other note on my reloading process is that I am using a Redding type-S full-length sizing die and the bushing (0.289") gives me just under 0.002" of neck tension."

It appears that you found the culprit with bumping the shoulder but you could also check neck thickness to see if that contributed to the flyers.

Good luck this season.

 

[DLFant]

I agree with jack on the Neck turning it shrunk my groups noticably. I also graphite the neck insides. I went out today to test once more before calling it good on my 111 in 65. It was really windy 25mph blowing form 10 oclock and I started not to shoot, but had the thought. when hunting conditions are seldom gonna be ideal. So I set the Gong at 300 and shot 5. The first was the cold bore shot after cleaning it was a little high. The forth shot pulled to the left. The other 3 measured just over one inch.

I can set up for a 1000 at my range but I have to move my bench. I don't want to do that today so I can reach 722 from my porch. I will post results later

 

[ShootnMathews]

DL

Great shooting. Wish my 111 LRH would do that with bergers.

I took a few minutes here and made me a quick ballistic turret label for season. It's not real fancy but I won't invest in a CTS label until its the Permanent load. I don't know of a replacement turret for this model scope. Anyways, the small penciled in numbers at the bottom match the MOA marks. The red numbers above the line are first rotation yardage. The blue numbers are second rotation yardage. Of course I haven't tested this load beyond 500 but I won't likely be shooting past that anyways. Not without testing first.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Jackmonkey

I do suspect that as being a contributor to the flyers. I think it could be a combination of neck thickness and concentricity issues when seating. But since I don't have neck turning tools or a concentricity gauge yet, it will be a while before I know. For now the noslers will serve me well here.

Jared

 

[JoeS1044]

View attachment 37957

I finally figured out my 6.5x284 lrh load data!

Nosler custom brass
cci br2
46.7g imr 4831
140g berger vld loaded .10 off the lans

Group measured .476 outside to outside and .212 point of impact I am beyond excited to finally have something shooting well in this gun!


The worse part is I bought some hornady 140 grain sst to hedge my bet for this season if the bergers wouldnt shoot now I have a bunch of extra bullets

I finally got some time to chrony the load today in the area ill be hunting.

My average readings were 2547

The temp was 53 degrees elevation 4163ft 10mph wind and 22% humidity do you guys think this will be far to slow to do what I need it to do. I am going to have to use this load this season for sure because there isnt enough time to possibly make another load