Safe minimum loads...double detonation??

[CatShooter]

This post does a good job of explaining detonation, at least how I have always understood it.

Now he goes into cartridges that I have no experience with, but the idea is the same, too little powder can create an over pressure situation.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/rem-700-action-limits-52987/index2.html#post363229

Except that it doesn't work that way.

There are lots of factory loads that do not fill the case, or even come close to filling the cases... and there are hand loads that do not come close to filling the case, and they do not have these problems at all.

 

[J E Custom]

I didn't think it was the air in the case that caused the issue. I thought it was the large surface of powder that could be ignited by the primer causing it to burn faster.

It is actually, both more surface the faster the burn and the more oxygen to come in tack with the powder increasing the burn rate, and changing the flame fronts consistency. The best, most consistent powder charges are 98 to 100+% density because this increases the control of the burn rate.

Another thing mentioned was the lack of 100% case density in factory loads. it is true that lots of loads including factory loads don't have 100% case density but rarely do they have less than 85% density for the reasons discussed.

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

You must have missed out on 10th grade chemistry.

Smokeless powder (C6H7(NO2)3O5) contains more oxygen that it can use when it breaks down.

6 carbons
7 hydrogen
3 Nitrogen
11 oxygen

So, when the heat and flame are done, there is still unused-uncombined oxygen left over. It does not use "air" in the process.

I am not even going to respond to this crap. (We find it in corrals where we keep horses) except to say, you missed out on reloading 101 and if you reload, please let the membership know when and where you will be at the range so we can call 911 for you.

As to the education, you have shone what you missed out on, not me.

I have one thing to say when an Internet expert starts getting personal instead of proving his point by discussion and facts, Buy a plane ticket and come see me and we can talk face to face. I will even buy your return ticket.

This site is notorious for being non combative and members like to discuss there differences and opinions without getting personal. you would be well advised to change or you won't last very long on this site.

I must apologies to the membership for this reply, But when someone starts to misinform the new guys that depend of us to keep them out of trouble someone has to step up.

J E CUSTOM

 

[FEENIX]

I am not even going to respond to this crap. (We find it in corrals where we keep horses) except to say, you missed out on reloading 101 and if you reload, please let the membership know when and where you will be at the range so we can call 911 for you.

As to the education, you have shone what you missed out on, not me.

I have one thing to say when an Internet expert starts getting personal instead of proving his point by discussion and facts, Buy a plane ticket and come see me and we can talk face to face. I will even buy your return ticket.

This site is notorious for being non combative and members like to discuss there differences and opinions without getting personal. you would be well advised to change or you won't last very long on this site.

I must apologies to the membership for this reply, But when someone starts to misinform the new guys that depend of us to keep them out of trouble someone has to step up.

J E CUSTOM

Jerry,

Sad but true!

No apologies required, you've always been very tactful with fellow members here in my book ... and that's why you're one of the few I look up to.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[338Rocket]

Except that it doesn't work that way.

Would you care to elaborate on that? I don't understand how it could work any other way.

If you have a line of gun powder and you light it from one end the flame travels down the line until the powder is gone.

If you light it from both ends, it burns in half the time.

The flame from the primer, if able to extend over a line of powder, ignites the powder in multiple places burning the powder more quickly, causing excessive pressure.

The "slower" the powder the more dangerous this becomes.

 

[Schnyd112]

Reduced load of imr4831 in a 25-06. I do not know the details other than the guy was looking for a load to shoot grouse while deer hunting and not have to carry two guns. It sheered the lugs off the bolt and it and skipped off his shoulder. Had he have mounted the gun an inch lower, the bolt would have stuck in him like a dart.

There are powders that are safe to reduce. Others are not. I can say with certainty, imr4831 and win296 are not safe to load below 80% load density. win296 is pistol powder and a little different, but still has the same endgame if you don't use enough, kablooey.

I always had a similiar understanding as JE, that too much air allows faster burn and a dangerous over pressure situation.