Sabots for long range Muzzleloading?

[midwesthunter]

I live in IN so no rifles allowed for deer season. I'm going to start practicing out to 250-300 with my muzzleloader. So anny bullet/powder recomendations? I plan on trying some of the new blackhorn 209 powder.

 

[walter351]

Did I read this right? Long range...... and Muzzleloader....... in the same sentence. Please do post back on you progress as I am sure there are many of us that would like to see what kind of a group you could throw together.

 

[midwesthunter]

Did I read this right? Long range...... and Muzzleloader....... in the same sentence. Please do post back on you progress as I am sure there are many of us that would like to see what kind of a group you could throw together.

Yes you read that right. Now for long range, it will be long range for the weapon. I will be using a CVA Acurra and a Savage smokeless. No custum guns, just over the counter out of the box. The CVA will already shoot 3/8" groups at 100. I plan on shooting out to 500-600 and hunting to 350 I will have to see what my fps and energy is first to determin max hunting distance.

 

[RT2506]

I know a guy in NC where I hunt that uses his Savage Smokeless 50 cal muzzle loader to kill deer in the 300 to 400 yard range. I think I heard him say that he uses the MPM high pressure sabots but can't remember the load or the bullet he uses. He knows exactly the yardage that a deer is at when he shoots. I heard him say that if you miss the yardage by as much as 25 yards it will most likely be a miss of a deer at that distance. You can bate for deer in NC so he knows the yardage to his bate sites. He has a 5-30X50 Swarovski scope on his Savage. He uses it all the time. He could use any rifle but he says this puts a challenge into hunting. He says most any body with a 7mm mag can kill a deer easy from 1 to 350 yards with a 3" high 100 yards zero by simply holding the cross hairs in the center of a deers shoulder and squeezing the trigger. It takes a lot of experimentation, judging the wind and knowing your yardage to do it with a muzzle loader.

 

[midwesthunter]

I know a guy in NC where I hunt that uses his Savage Smokeless 50 cal muzzle loader to kill deer in the 300 to 400 yard range. I think I heard him say that he uses the MPM high pressure sabots but can't remember the load or the bullet he uses. He knows exactly the yardage that a deer is at when he shoots. I heard him say that if you miss the yardage by as much as 25 yards it will most likely be a miss of a deer at that distance. You can bate for deer in NC so he knows the yardage to his bate sites. He has a 5-30X50 Swarovski scope on his Savage. He uses it all the time. He could use any rifle but he says this puts a challenge into hunting. He says most any body with a 7mm mag can kill a deer easy from 1 to 350 yards with a 3" high 100 yards zero by simply holding the cross hairs in the center of a deers shoulder and squeezing the trigger. It takes a lot of experimentation, judging the wind and knowing your yardage to do it with a muzzle loader.

Well with any longrange hunting knowing the distance is importand specially with a slow projectile. NC deer are like the size of dogs compaired to are deer here in IN. average buck dresses 225lb's. It will be a fun challenge for sure. I have a ridge I can set up on in some tall grass. Might wear a guily suit for kicks. The hunt will be videoed with prob two camera angles. I call that area the killing fields gun)Lots of ground hogs have been turned to chuncks out there.

 

[edge]

I can't help with the BP loads, but smokeless is another matter

Tell me a bit about your Savage loads, powders, bullets and accuracy.

For smokeless shooting, IMO there is no better people helping than here :

Doug's Message Boards - Home

One of the problems is always bullet performance. Finding a bullet that will perform at 50 yards and still kill reliably at 3 or 400 yards is a bit of a problem in 45 caliber.
One of the best is the Barnes Original 300 grain bullet....but you will need to dial up past about 275 yards!

Low BC really limits your range due to wind deflection and "brick trajectory"!

edge.

 

[midwesthunter]

I can't help with the BP loads, but smokeless is another matter

Tell me a bit about your Savage loads, powders, bullets and accuracy.

For smokeless shooting, IMO there is no better people helping than here :

Doug's Message Boards - Home

One of the problems is always bullet performance. Finding a bullet that will perform at 50 yards and still kill reliably at 3 or 400 yards is a bit of a problem in 45 caliber.
One of the best is the Barnes Original 300 grain bullet....but you will need to dial up past about 275 yards!

Low BC really limits your range due to wind deflection and "brick trajectory"!

edge.

thanks I just got the smokeless, It was my grandfathers. I have shot it several times and it kicks like a mule. I have shot shockwaves out of it with decent accuracy. I loaded some hornay the old syle and man I was lucky to get the projo down the tube. Its is a pre accutriger syth stock. Will prob bed it, and fill the but section in with some shot. And better recoil pad for sure. I have been looking at dead center bullets? I think thats what there called. They have a all lead bullet that should perform well out there a ways.

 

[edge]

IMO, I would not use the Dead Center.

If you are planning on high velocity for long range then a close impact will be like a varmint bullet!
Smokeless is NOT like BP to ignite.

Anything too loose and all you will get is poof ( this only happens on big bucks )

I have used the Dead Center bullets and found them deadly accurate at the range, but did encounter a misfire while hunting. I attribute this to the soft lead conforming to the bore over time and in effect making a loose load.

I admit that the powder I was using may not have been optimum for ignition, but yours may not be either.
I hit a small deer at around 200 yards with a MV around 2500+
The results were not pretty and penetration was minimal....but it was a dead deer.

If you like to tinker then the Savage will give you a lot to tinker with.

As a side note, the Vent liner wears fairly quickly and the ID should be checked about every 25 shots. It starts at around 0.031 and once it passes about 0.037 accuracy will normally start to go south.
In that same vein, you either need to keep the breechplug free of carbon by drilling it out every 30 - 100 shots OR you never clean it until you can't load a primer without crushing it. Then you only clean out the nipple area.

Clean can be accurate and dirty can be accurate, but in-between while it cruds up you will tear your hair out

edge.

 

[midwesthunter]

IMO, I would not use the Dead Center.

If you are planning on high velocity for long range then a close impact will be like a varmint bullet!
Smokeless is NOT like BP to ignite.

Anything too loose and all you will get is poof ( this only happens on big bucks )

I have used the Dead Center bullets and found them deadly accurate at the range, but did encounter a misfire while hunting. I attribute this to the soft lead conforming to the bore over time and in effect making a loose load.

I admit that the powder I was using may not have been optimum for ignition, but yours may not be either.
I hit a small deer at around 200 yards with a MV around 2500+
The results were not pretty and penetration was minimal....but it was a dead deer.

If you like to tinker then the Savage will give you a lot to tinker with.

As a side note, the Vent liner wears fairly quickly and the ID should be checked about every 25 shots. It starts at around 0.031 and once it passes about 0.037 accuracy will normally start to go south.
In that same vein, you either need to keep the breechplug free of carbon by drilling it out every 30 - 100 shots OR you never clean it until you can't load a primer without crushing it. Then you only clean out the nipple area.

Clean can be accurate and dirty can be accurate, but in-between while it cruds up you will tear your hair out

edge.

I will have plenty of time to tinker thanks for the input

 

[RT2506]

Another thing to be aware of with the smokeless Savage rifle is if you do have a misfire BE SURE AND RESEAT THE BULLET. If the primer pops and the powder charge does not go off it will sometimes push the bullet away from the powder charge. If you try it again without reseating the bullet and it does go off it can bulge or bust the barrel. I remembered the powder that the fellow in NC uses but not the charge or bullet. The powder is Hodgdon Littlegun.

 

[edge]

Generally a bullet not down on the powder results in either a mis fire or a very reduce pressure load. This is unlike a BP load where the pressure wave hits the stationary bullet at very high velocity.

Probably the only powders that may work as you describe is the "cowboy" powders.... but they would not be prone to the misfires in the first place.

edge.