• If you are being asked to change your password, and unsure how to do it, follow these instructions. Click here

Rifle won't hold zero

Evidently you are still drinking bourbon. It does that to me every time!

You may wish to switch to a single malt (nothing with Johnny in the name!) before you shoot. It has helped me quite a bit.

From what I can see from the groups it does not appear to be the rifle or scope. :)
 
Evidently you are still drinking bourbon. It does that to me every time!

You may wish to switch to a single malt (nothing with Johnny in the name!) before you shoot. It has helped me quite a bit.

From what I can see from the groups it does not appear to be the rifle or scope. :)

Except the groups are moving and I'm not telling them too. U can see on a few of the groups the bullet jumps out of the group and is moving to the location of the next group. I wish I could blame it on the whiskey. Unfortunately the 300 win mag I shot before this rifle shot perfectly fine.
 
OK, we know that some of the problem was in the scope mount group because you could move the mounts after you removed the scope.
Now that we have that corrected and all mechanical connections are sound (action bedded and torqued, barrel free float verified, etc., let's look at what you have.
Next thing I'd like to know is how large those little red targets are and how far away you were when taking those shots. Are you setting the rifle up on the bench, sand bags, rest (what type), butt bag, sled, etc.. Next, are you relying on free recoil or do you have some shoulder pressure in the hold - if so, how much. Where is your free hand (the one not on the trigger) when you fire each round.
Is your purchase at the shoulder the same with each shot or are you holding it higher/lower in your shoulder. What's the pull weight on the trigger and is a single or two stage trigger. Assuming you're using a proven reload that you are absolutely certain has printed on target with consistent accuracy in the past, we can stay away from possible reload inconsistencies. If not, we'll need to look at load variations, seating depth, neck tension, and stuff like that.
What I see in your targets is very often attributable to rear bag influences or, in the absence of a rear bag (butt bag) shoulder hold inconsistencies. It could also be breath control.

Incidentally, when used properly the JB Weld applied in bedding the rail (when done correctly) remains with the rail. It can be chipped away - with some difficult - if you ever need to do that - but the idea is to fit the rail properly to the action and leave it there. It is not to take it off and put it on some other rifle. I don't use lok-tite. Had some bad experiences with it where removal of screws at a later date became a problem. If I use it at all I usually just put a drop just under the head of the screw (using a stick pin) before it seats. I don't use it on threads.
 
OK, we know that some of the problem was in the scope mount group because you could move the mounts after you removed the scope.
Now that we have that corrected and all mechanical connections are sound (action bedded and torqued, barrel free float verified, etc., let's look at what you have.
Next thing I'd like to know is how large those little red targets are and how far away you were when taking those shots. Are you setting the rifle up on the bench, sand bags, rest (what type), butt bag, sled, etc.. Next, are you relying on free recoil or do you have some shoulder pressure in the hold - if so, how much. Where is your free hand (the one not on the trigger) when you fire each round.
Is your purchase at the shoulder the same with each shot or are you holding it higher/lower in your shoulder. What's the pull weight on the trigger and is a single or two stage trigger. Assuming you're using a proven reload that you are absolutely certain has printed on target with consistent accuracy in the past, we can stay away from possible reload inconsistencies. If not, we'll need to look at load variations, seating depth, neck tension, and stuff like that
What I see in your targets is very often attributable to rear bag influences or, in the absence of a rear bag (butt bag) shoulder hold inconsistencies. It could also be breath control.

Incidentally, when used properly the JB Weld applied in bedding the rail (when done correctly) remains with the rail. It can be chipped away - with some difficult - if you ever need to do that - but the idea is to fit the rail properly to the action and leave it there. It is not to take it off and put it on some other rifle. I don't use lok-tite. Had some bad experiences with it where removal of screws at a later date became a problem. If I use it at all I usually just put a drop just under the head of the screw (using a stick pin) before it seats. I don't use it on threads.

The bullseyes are about the size of a dime and I'm a hundred yards away. I shot off bench with bipod and rear bag with 14 oz jewell trigger. I don't put any presser on the gun at all. Just squeeze the rear bag to get elevation. However it is not the shooter I can promise you that. I reload for about 10 rifles in various calibers and all shoot 3 shot groups in the .350 or smaller at a range of a hundred yards and all hold zero. No problem. This rifle has 400 rounds through it and it and this started in the last 100. Before that this rifle was very consistent.

The Jb weld was applied correctly. I use the stuff all the time but never thought to use it on the rail for the bedding. Worked great by the way.

I know when all is tight the next thought is that it has to be the shooter. And I'm not going to say I've never had a bad day but this is every time I've tried to shoot this. Like I said earlier all my other rifles make nice little bug holes right in the center where they should be. The more round I put through the rifle the further off it gets. I've had it 8 inches off before. I can dial it to zero and think all is well until I start missing again and when I check zero it is way off. Then I dial it back and it is ok for a few rounds then off again. And I clean the rifle every time I'm done for the day with it or I shoot around 20 rounds. Which ever comes first.

The only thing I didn't do when checking screws was to pull the stock from the action. It's is bedded and didn't want to screw it up pulling it apart. But the barrel is defiantly free floating. I'm all out of ideas
 
Wow, Tx; I'm all out of ideas too. Based on your comments you've done just about everything imaginable. It does appear that you've improved it somewhat but if you can't rely on it you certainly won't be comfortable shooting it the way it is.
I suspect you've tried the most obvious other factor by exchanging scopes - just to see if it is in fact an internal problem with the scope you've been fighting with.
I was hoping J E Custom and MudRunner2005 might jump in here with some of their good ideas but apparently they've missed making the connection.
With respect to some of the extended commentary, I hope you'll keep in mind that none of the contributors here mean to insult your skills. We just know that, over time, others who might no be as experienced in the shooting sports will be reading some of this stuff and that the additional info. may help them.
 
No offense was ever taken. After everything else I'd think it was the shooter. I'd did try changing scopes. It was originally a nightforce now it's a Steiner
 
Just a thought.....I am on my way to the gun smith this morning, because yesterday while chasing groups just like you, I happened to grab the rifle by the barrel to move it. It was LOOSE!!!! I had come unthreaded. How in the world could this happen? I had never seen this. We also had noticed that the rail had loosened, and thought that we found the problem.

So you might check and see if the barrel is still torqued on.

Steve
 
My son and I fought the same thing on my Ultra Mag, it was the scope. Try changing it out. I could not believe my scope was bad but it was.
 
Just got back from the smith. Looks like an underling did not put enough torque onto the threads. He will re index the barrel and the brake for us today so we can get back out on Wed and get the zero reset and still be able to hunt with it on the youth opener Thurs. Wheww cutting her close.

So again, I would have never suspected a loose barrel, but worth checking.

Steve
 
So I finally was able to let my smith take a look at the rifle and I had a burr on the crown that I couldn't see because my brake was on. Never thought that to be the problem because it was protected. He says to be careful pulling the cleaning rod back through the that was most likely the reason for it
 
It's been a good week my rifles shooting again and I manaded to take this awesome deer
image.jpg
 
Warning! This thread is more than 11 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.
Top