Rifle burst tests, how good is your rifle?

[J E Custom]

That video has been bouncing around for a while now. It was taken in Finland whilst a range of rifles were tested. They were all 308 with the same bullets - 168gr.

The build quality of the average remington/browning/winchester (excluding the older winchesters) is not highly regarded here in Europe.

Hmmmm. Let me see. the test was in Finland and not buy an independent lab that had no
axe to grind . Interesting.

There is no doubt that the Europeans Make fine fire arms (At a Fine Price Also). but I still think that the Remington's, winchester,Savages etc given the same test parameters would perform
just as well.

I could conduct the same test with the same Info (None) and the outcome would be just the
opposite if I wanted it to be.

I am not defending any rifle just saying that test like these are self serving and not valid.

All firearms are designed to fire bullets safely and not blow up (Unless you do something
stupid like weld the barrel up).

Just my opinion ,so if you want to believe a test like this "Go for it".

J E CUSTOM

 

[scotsgun]

Hmmmm. Let me see. the test was in Finland and not buy an independent lab that had no
axe to grind . Interesting.

There is no doubt that the Europeans Make fine fire arms (At a Fine Price Also). but I still think that the Remington's, winchester,Savages etc given the same test parameters would perform
just as well.

I could conduct the same test with the same Info (None) and the outcome would be just the
opposite if I wanted it to be.

I am not defending any rifle just saying that test like these are self serving and not valid.

All firearms are designed to fire bullets safely and not blow up (Unless you do something
stupid like weld the barrel up).

Just my opinion ,so if you want to believe a test like this "Go for it".

J E CUSTOM

No disagreements here, mate. If it were conducted by a manufacturer then you can guarantee each and every model of their rifles would pass.

The problem for US manufacturers when selling over here in Europe is the different markets. Here, our gun controls are draconian and very strictly controlled. It is relatively unusual for a hunter to own more than say 6 rifles and therefore we tend to consider quite carefully before buying. You are unlikely to buy any 30cal rifle that takes your fancy if aware that you will not be allowed to own another in 30cal.

We envy you your ability to own and use what you wish. Your US manufacturers have responded accordingly by designing guns suitable for large production runs, inexpensive and ultimately built to a price.

Add to this mix the economics. You wouldn't believe the mark-up of US shooting products here. It's stupid because it actually works against the US. Take for example a basic Remington 700 SPS. Here in the UK it sells in the same price bracket as a Tikka T3 or a Steyr ProHunter.
A decent Kimber - it has to compete against the like of the Sako 85 stainless synthetic with all the bells and whistles, the Mauser 03 and the Sauer 202. Therefore being overpriced, US rifles compare badly - the odds are just stacked to much against them.
I've always quite liked the look and specs of Cooper rifles, especially the varmints buy for the same money here i can buy a new Blazer R8!

Marc

 

[specweldtom]

Marc, I posted way back on this thread (some questions), and was surprised to see it become active again. I don't know if anybody was grinding an axe or not, but I have wondered why a Weatherby MK V wasn't tested. You may have just provided the answer. Too expensive to potentially damage a very fine rifle. They're expensive here. I can't imagine what they must cost over there.

If I sound partisan about MK V's, it's because I am. The factory rifles are well made and reasonably accurate on average, with a good percentage of stand-out performers, but a custom rifle with a premium barrel built on a Wby MK V action is as good as it gets.

I appreciated your post. Lots of light and no heat.

Tom

 

[scotsgun]

Weatherby rifles. Generally they are considered well built, rugged but more of a niche gun. One of the problems is that we tend to get them offered in unusual calibres, such as 300Mag. If only Weatherby were to wake up and offer them in some of the more usual European deer stalking calibres: 308, 6.5x55, 7x57, 7x64 etc

Again they appear overpriced here. The Weatherby Accumark with synthetic stock and fluted barrel retails at approx $3600 US dollars. Just to give you an idea, my Sako 85 hunter and my Steyr SSG69 cost half of that!
Now i know that you're a Weatherby fan, but would you really buy the Accumark when for practically the same price you could have a hand built, quality RPA International Highland Stalker?
RPA Highland Stalker Hunting Rifle

Hence their scarcity in Europe.

 

[winmag]

Weatherby rifles. Generally they are considered well built, rugged but more of a niche gun. One of the problems is that we tend to get them offered in unusual calibres, such as 300Mag. If only Weatherby were to wake up and offer them in some of the more usual European deer stalking calibres: 308, 6.5x55, 7x57, 7x64 etc

Again they appear overpriced here. The Weatherby Accumark with synthetic stock and fluted barrel retails at approx $3600 US dollars. Just to give you an idea, my Sako 85 hunter and my Steyr SSG69 cost half of that!
Now i know that you're a Weatherby fan, but would you really buy the Accumark when for practically the same price you could have a hand built, quality RPA International Highland Stalker?
RPA Highland Stalker Hunting Rifle

Hence their scarcity in Europe.

No wonder your opinion is so swayed toward European firearms. Mine would be too if I was in your shoes. Thats rediculous to even think about paying that much for a plain jane factory rifle of ANY make or model. Heck Id have a hard time caughing up $3600 for a custom. I now have a better understanding of why our opinions differ so greatly, and why you choose what you do. Limmited on the number of rifles and calibers you can own would SUCK!!!!! Plus seeing the offerings you get for the price..... NO WAY! I cant even imagine.... THAT SUCKS!!!
Im a huge Winchester fan, and you know that, and know why already. But if I was in your shoes Im pretty sure Id own (ONLY 6-...yikes!) Sako Finnbear's in calibers popular to my continent and or world wide.
I havent played with the Sako -75 or -85, but Im quite impressed with the old school Sako Finnbears. Of course if they cost double what a Win-70 did and were only offered in "odd for continent" calibers, then add in the mix that I could only have 6 rifles...... I wouldnt give them a second glance. (as in a role reversal).
Well, now I have a better understanding of your stance on American vs European firearms, and calibers/cartriges.
Thank you for the informitave post

 

[scotsgun]

No problem. Glad i could add something to the discussion.

Winchesters are pretty good rifles. I've owned a couple in my time and have only just bought an 70 Extreme Weather SS in 270wsm. I'd much rather own a winnie than a remmy!


Hunting rifles i currently own and current retail prices (converted to US Dollars):
Steyr SSG69 in 308 $1750
Sako 85 Hunter in 270 $2070
Tikka M65 in 2506 Not currently in production
Mauser M03 in 6.5x55 $2390
Sauer 202 Stutzen in 7x64 $2870
Winchester 70 Extreme Weather in 270wsm $1440


A few US rifles currently available and their prices for comparison:
Browning X Bolt $1195
Thompson Icon $1440
Savage Arms 16 FLSS $1705
Kimber 84 Montanna $2230
Remington 700 Police TWS $3665
Mossberg ATR $877
Remington 700 SPS $1020

 

[specweldtom]

Scotsgun, I'm sending you a P/M about something that doesn't fit this thread.

Thanks, Tom

 

[scotsgun]

Tom,
Check your email. I got an answer from Sako.
Marc

 

[Chas1]

No problem. Glad i could add something to the discussion.

Winchesters are pretty good rifles. I've owned a couple in my time and have only just bought an 70 Extreme Weather SS in 270wsm. I'd much rather own a winnie than a remmy!


Hunting rifles i currently own and current retail prices (converted to US Dollars):
Steyr SSG69 in 308 $1750
Sako 85 Hunter in 270 $2070
Tikka M65 in 2506 Not currently in production
Mauser M03 in 6.5x55 $2390
Sauer 202 Stutzen in 7x64 $2870
Winchester 70 Extreme Weather in 270wsm $1440


A few US rifles currently available and their prices for comparison:
Browning X Bolt $1195
Thompson Icon $1440
Savage Arms 16 FLSS $1705
Kimber 84 Montanna $2230
Remington 700 Police TWS $3665
Mossberg ATR $877
Remington 700 SPS $1020

With that kind of pricing I wouldn't own more than 6 either.

 

[Loner]

Back in the late sixties a gun magazine ran a test on five rifles with overloaded
rounds. The Win, Rem, and Browning (FN Mauser back then) all blew on the first
round, the Weatherby went three, the Ruger stood five and was still intact, at that
point they quit shooting it. Not really pertinent to todays guns but interesting.

 

[Kronberg]

Some facts about this test:

a) It is Swedish test, not a Finnish one. That is pretty big of a difference, even for non-Fennoscandinavians. So it is pretty hard to make the argument that this test was made to suit the Finnish, Italian or German rifles. For anybody half-informed about European matters, the thought that the Swedes try to push Finnish products sounds funny indeed.

BTW the Japanese one, HOWA did also well.

b) This test was done by Testfakta, a independent and prominent Swedish testing agency which mission is to give the (Swedish) consumer clear and impartial testing results. The testing itself was done in the Försvarets Materielverk, which is responsible for the testing of the "Teknik för Sveriges Säkerheit", basically the testing of the military technology of Sweden. Pretty hard to get a better partner than FMV.

--> Här exploderar älgstudsaren - Testfakta.se

--> Försvarets materielverk - På svenska

c) You can get the single videos, test-setup and details from their hompage:

--> Här exploderar älgstudsaren - Testfakta.se


After setting some things straight, the discussion might get back to the track.


Kronberg

 

[roaddog1m]

Thank you for that clarification. Now I just have to remember not to weld my barrel shut. But, I can see how easily that could happen. Now I'd like to see some tests where a stick of Acme brand dynamite is inserted into the action in place of the bolt. Since you just never know when this could happen, the relevance is certainly on par with the welded barrel test.
I know that is a little bit (ok, a lot) sarcastic, but hopefully you can imagine why we all think the test was:

A: Entertaining
B: Irrelevant
C: A waist of some fine rifles

Cheers

 

[roaddog1m]

No wonder your opinion is so swayed toward European firearms. Mine would be too if I was in your shoes. Thats rediculous to even think about paying that much for a plain jane factory rifle of ANY make or model. Heck Id have a hard time caughing up $3600 for a custom. I now have a better understanding of why our opinions differ so greatly, and why you choose what you do. Limmited on the number of rifles and calibers you can own would SUCK!!!!! Plus seeing the offerings you get for the price..... NO WAY! I cant even imagine.... THAT SUCKS!!!
Im a huge Winchester fan, and you know that, and know why already. But if I was in your shoes Im pretty sure Id own (ONLY 6-...yikes!) Sako Finnbear's in calibers popular to my continent and or world wide.
I havent played with the Sako -75 or -85, but Im quite impressed with the old school Sako Finnbears. Of course if they cost double what a Win-70 did and were only offered in "odd for continent" calibers, then add in the mix that I could only have 6 rifles...... I wouldnt give them a second glance. (as in a role reversal).
Well, now I have a better understanding of your stance on American vs European firearms, and calibers/cartriges.
Thank you for the informitave post

I think I'd just move to the USA and let them have it.

 

[unvisable]

I am sure glad that I saw this. I went out to the barn and washed out all the plugs that I had welded into my rifles with a cutting torch. Thank goodness I haven't fired them since I welded the plugs in the muzzles. I put some little guoges in the end with the torch. Do you think that I need to recrown or can this wait ?

Guys - I have been around a blowup and it didn't have a thing to do with barrel plugs. If your that close please don't be lulled into thinking that the difference between brands is a confidence builder.