Remington Magazine Box ?

[slygunner]

I have a Rem. ADL 204 that has a magazine box that with a spacer in it. It doesn't let me load my cartridges with a long OAL. I need to know what magazine box and follower I can use that will allow me to load a longer cartridge so that I can get closer to the lands. I have a Rem. 22-250 VS and it has a magazine box that doesn't have that spacer in it, can I use one of those if I can find one? And what do I do about screwing it to the action since it doesn't have the tab like the ADL magazine box?
Thanks,
slygunner

 

[Fiftydriver]

Skyliner,

The 204 mag box is the same wideth as the 223. The 22-250 box is much wider so you will get case binding problems in your box as you try to feel your rounds.

If I were you, I would take your rifle to your local smith and tell him what you are looking to do.

He will be able to remove the spacer block in your magazine box and then he will either need to order in a replacement follower to fit the longer length of the empty box or modify your existing follower with front, rear or both extensions to fill the space in the longer box.

The longer follower will probably be a follower for the 243 class rounds. This follower would need to be thinned on both sides and probably have some front modifications as well.

The problem with using one of these followers is that the round positioning hump on the follower is designed to push the fatter .470" case head diameter case over against the wall of the box and may not function perfectly with the 204.

Take it to your smith and he should be able to get it modified to what you want without to much trouble or money.

Good shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[slygunner]

Fiftydriver,
Thank you for the suggestion. The problem that I have with taking it to the local gunsmith is that he is a rape artist. The other gunsmith that I know of takes about 6 months to do anything and he's about 70 miles away. So I kind of am stuck.

Thanks for the reply.slygunner

 

[Ray Meketa]

Brownells sells all the Remington parts and you should be able to get what you need from them and install yourself.
www.brownells.com

 

[brianwinzor]

Slygunner,

Welcome to the Club! I have a Rem 700 BDL, Shilen SS Barrel, that is chambered for the .17/222 magnum improved (40) and I have encountered the same problem.

About 3 years ago, I noticed that as I increased the overall loaded length to keep the bullet about .015 inches from the lands as the throat eroded, feeding problems began to develop. Also, about 1 year ago I began using the 30 grain bullets from Hammett and Kindler, and these were about .090 -.115 inches longer than the 25 grain Hornady Hp (.560 inches), and similar problems occured.

I also own a Rem 700 BDL that is currently chambered for the .22/250 AI. So recently I did some measurements of magazine and components for both the .222/223/222 magnum, etc magazine box with spacer, and also the 22/250, 243, 308, etc without spacer. The results were:

Rem 700 Short Action -17 Rem, .223 etc bolt
Magazine Box
Interior Length without spacer - 2.850 inches
Spacer width - 0.440 inches
Interior length with spacer - 2.410 inches

Magazine Follower
Length - 2.300 inches
Width at front - 0.612 inches
Width at back - 0.687 inches

Magazine Spring
Length at top 1.775 inches
Length at bottom - 1.775 inches
Width .504 inches

Rem 700 Short Action .22/250, .243,etc bolt
Magazine Box
Interior Length 2.850 inches

Magazine Follower
Length - 2.770 inches
Width at front - 0.630 inches
Width at back - 0.794 inches

Magazine Spring
Length at top - 2.475 inches
Length at bottom - 2.655 inches
Width - 0.504 inches

I also loaded up some dummy cases to various loaded lengths to try and identify at what length the loading appeared to deteriorate. My tests showed that once about 2.260 inches was exceeded, the reliablility of the feeding started to decline, and by 2.320 inches it had almost become totally unreliable.

I then took both rifles around to my gunsmith's house and got his opinion on how to solve the problem.

He and I both agreed that the best solution seemed to be to extend the length of the existing follower to 2.770 inches which is the same length as the follower in my 22/250.

He believed that the best method to extend it would be to cut off about .25- .300 inches from the existing .222 mag follower, and then cut off the amount required from another similar .222/222mag etc follower that when tig welded to the front of the other follower would take the overall length to 2.770 inches.

Then to provide sufficient support to the follower and prevent it from diving when the loaded round is pushed forward by the bolt, obtain a magazine spring from a 22/250, etc and substitute it for the existing follower, as luckily the spring used for both boltfaces is the same width.(ie .504 inches)

We quickly dismissed the idea of using a 22/250, .243 follower and grinding it down to the correct width, as the design makes that impractical.

Currently, I have purchased the spare spring from another .22/250, and am awaiting my gunsmith to send me a spare follower from a 222 etc. I will let you know in due course how the experiment progresses.
Regards, Brian.

 

[slygunner]

Brian,
That was an awsome reply. I can hardly wait to here the outcome of your project. It seems that not very many people encounter this problem but I know that Rugers have the same problem as they have a spacer in the magazine also. I'm surprised that this problem has to reared its ugly face more often. I have posted this problem of a few other forums and have got responses from people that have not had the problem but think they know how to fix it

Thanks,slygunner

 

[brianwinzor]

Slygunner,

Like you I am amazed that no one else seems to post experiences of similar feeding problems with 222 magnum, or 204 Ruger when using a Rem 700. I guess very few use the .222 Magnum, and the 204 Ruger is still very new, and the experimentation is only beginnning.

Out of curiosity what is the loaded length of factory amunition in the 204 Ruger. I note on their website, that Remington offer 32 and 40 grain Accutip ammunition in this calibre.

It is difficult to imagine that Remington would not be aware of the potential problems with the 222 magnum and .204 Ruger with the longer bullets.

Also any handloader who uses the longer VLD style bullets and tries to seat near or in the lands, and then chases the lands as the throat erodes will inevitably have problems.

An obvious solution is for Remington to either reduce the width of the spacer, or better still eliminate it and redesign the follower.

It is ironic that I experienced similar feeding problems due to insufficient length in the magazine of my other Remington M700 Short Action with .473 inch boltface.

My current barrel which is chambered for 22/250AI was formerly chambered for the .224 Clark (22/257 Robert Imp) for 1600 shots. I discovered that once the throat had eroded about.080 inches, and the overall length of the loaded round exceeded 2.850 inches, feeding problems occured.

Next time I build a .224 Clark I will use a long action, as I have calculated that I will need a magazine that will accomodate a loaded length of about 3.250 inches when using the VLD style 80 and 90 grain bullets.
Regards, Brian.

 

[slygunner]

brian,
I talked to a knowledgable gunsmith today and he told me how to fix the problem.
I first thing I need to do is take the spacer out of the magazine by using a dremel tool and cutting the spot welds that hold it in place. Then find a piece of thick plastic that is or can be cut to the proper width and epoxy it in place of the spacer. The plastic will allow the follower to move freely. There is no need to modify the follower because it will always be at the back of the magazine and so will the ammo. He said that you would not have to modify the follower until you need more than about .200 more room, I only need about .045 to about .060 more room to load the OAL that I need.
The COL length of the Hornaday ammo is 2.250 for the 32gr and the 40gr cartrdges.
Thanks for the relpy and info brian.slygunner

[ 09-29-2004: Message edited by: slygunner ]

 

[brianwinzor]

Slygunner,

Thanks for that information, it certainly sounds like adding a plastic block of smaller diameter (up to .200) should work.

Recently when I did my measurements I found that there were no welds to cut, and that my spacer slid out easily.

I note that you said that the current loaded length of your .204 Ruger was 2.250, and that you only need another .045 to .060 inches.

I have a feeling that you might have underestimated the last measurement, and not taken into account two factors, which are the actual the distance from the boltface to the lands with the 32,40, and 50 grain bullets, and also allowing an amount of about .150 inches for throat erosion.

Making an allowance for throat erosion is necessary to maintain the bullet to land distance, and especially if you are contemplating using the VLD bullets, as almost invariably they need to be seated so that the bullet is either touching the lands of .005 - 010 into the lands if they are to shoot accurately.

I have just done some calculations and decided I will try and use the plastic insert as a short - medium term solution.

However for a long term solution, I will still go ahead and make a longer follower by the method I mentioned earlier.

One reason is that when I rebarrel, I am contemplating adopting my gunsmith's suggestion of using the 5.6x50mm case which is .118 inches longer than the .222 magnum case, so I am going to need about 2.450 to 2.500 in available length.
Regards, Brian.

 

[slygunner]

brian,
thanks for the repy. You were right, I did not take into consideration that if I were to use the other bullets and chase the lands that I would need more room. So now the problem is going to be the follower. I will somehow need to find a way to lengthen the follower. That is wierd that your magazine box spacer was not welded in, because mine is.Back to the drawing board.Thanks for the info brian.slygunner

[ 10-04-2004: Message edited by: slygunner ]