MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Couldn't you use a bushing die with an expander?
Redding Type "S" dies, are they worth the extra money?
- Thread starter Idaho Sawyer
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Couldn't you use a bushing die with an expander?
Kevin Thomas
Well-Known Member
Hope you don't mind my popping in here, but it's not an issue with the expander ball. VarmintHunter's right; the bushings generally have a bit too sharp of a radius on their edges to do necking operations very well. They're just great for actual sizing, of course, but in reducing neck diameters by a caliber or so they can be a bit finicky. You're better off using a standard sizing die for such case forming chores, if that's an option here.
Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA
Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
The bushings basically have parallel sides with virtually no beveled lead into them. A standard die has the entire shoulder which bevels into the neck. Perfect for necking down from one size to another.
Your neck reduction "might" work with a bushing die but I doubt it.
Your neck reduction "might" work with a bushing die but I doubt it.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Interesting... I read on here where a member had down necked 2 or 3 cal in one step with a bushing. Maybe I misunderstood? I would think if you use enough bushings/steps it could be done.
How would you go about necking down a 270 WSM to a 6.5 WSM with a "standard" sizing die?
How would you go about necking down a 270 WSM to a 6.5 WSM with a "standard" sizing die?
Last edited:
Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
I just ran 100 cases in 308 through a Redding S down to 260. Lost no cases.
What I have learned, is to use the body die first as it has a larger neck diameter and then it is close to final neck diameter so it is not a problem to run it through the neck die. There is a little weirdness to the neck junction because of the neck die not going all of the way to the shoulder.
The process works OK for some of the other calibers I use also.
What I have learned, is to use the body die first as it has a larger neck diameter and then it is close to final neck diameter so it is not a problem to run it through the neck die. There is a little weirdness to the neck junction because of the neck die not going all of the way to the shoulder.
The process works OK for some of the other calibers I use also.
338 LEGEND
Well-Known Member
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+1
Thats the way i do it. If im going down in size more then one cal i will use alittle STP OIL in the body die , Then anneal after and run in the bushing die, works great.
Idaho Sawyer
Well-Known Member
once again thanks for the detailed input! The amount of knowledge on this sight is great! I appreciate the info on NOT being able to downsize necks with the type S dies, But being able to with the body die. I have used a Redding Comp seater for my 30-338 for a while now and as some of you have stated it is a great die and will be standard issue for the new barrels. While we got the die topic going how do you guys feel the Forster Seater compares to the Redding Comp seater. I realize that the Redding seater has the edge on the fine tune seating depths, But how about a comparison of runout? thanks, Brent
Clark
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I used Redding FL "S" dies for years before I did an experiment comparing those, RCBS, Forster, Forster factory honed neck, Lee RGB, and Lee collet dies.
The "S" dies are the worst of the bunch, but look the best and cost the most.
The Lee collet die is the best of the bunch, but looks the worst and cost the least.
The "S" dies are the worst of the bunch, but look the best and cost the most.
The Lee collet die is the best of the bunch, but looks the worst and cost the least.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate?
Did you measure and compare the run out?
Clark
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I took populations of 10 fired .223 cases from my Ruger #1V.
*I measured the run out of each at the neck with a Sinclair concentricity gauge, and they all looked very good.
*I measured the length of each case.
*I sized 10 cases with each die.
*I measured the run out at the neck.
*I measured the length of each case.
*I primed, charged, seated with a bullet with a Forster sliding sleeve seater die.
*I measured the run out at the ogive and recorded it.
*I fired the rounds @ ~ 66kpsi chamber pressure.
I repeated the process several times and followed the growth of the die dedicated cases.
The brass went into the rifle eccentric and long.
The brass came out of the rifle concentric and shorter, and then came out of the sizing die eccentric and even longer.
1) In general, the pulling of a sizer ball through a neck makes the most error.
2) Next down the line in eccentricity causes is sizing.
3) The tiny effect of bullet seating is also measurable.
All of the above testing was done without any sizer ball effect, pulling or pushing.
*I measured the run out of each at the neck with a Sinclair concentricity gauge, and they all looked very good.
*I measured the length of each case.
*I sized 10 cases with each die.
*I measured the run out at the neck.
*I measured the length of each case.
*I primed, charged, seated with a bullet with a Forster sliding sleeve seater die.
*I measured the run out at the ogive and recorded it.
*I fired the rounds @ ~ 66kpsi chamber pressure.
I repeated the process several times and followed the growth of the die dedicated cases.
The brass went into the rifle eccentric and long.
The brass came out of the rifle concentric and shorter, and then came out of the sizing die eccentric and even longer.
1) In general, the pulling of a sizer ball through a neck makes the most error.
2) Next down the line in eccentricity causes is sizing.
3) The tiny effect of bullet seating is also measurable.
All of the above testing was done without any sizer ball effect, pulling or pushing.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Sounds like quite a test. Thanks for posting.
I wonder if anyone else has done similar comparisons?
I wonder if anyone else has done similar comparisons?
jgrreed
Member
Hi Guys, I currently have a Redding Type S Match FL set for my 6.5 Lapua. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm pretty new. I don't neck turn, anneal, etc, yet. I'm shopping for a set of dies for my .338LM, and after some reading in the last 24 hours I'm more confused than ever.
From what I've read, I gather that the competition sets are not worth the added cost, and the the NS vs. FL size debate rages on. What also seems pretty clear is that the expander ball in my Match S die is bad, and that an expander die from KM would be more wiser.
Can I take that expander ball out of my FL Type S??
Thx.
-Jeremy.
ps - sorry for reigniting a 5 year old thread!!!
From what I've read, I gather that the competition sets are not worth the added cost, and the the NS vs. FL size debate rages on. What also seems pretty clear is that the expander ball in my Match S die is bad, and that an expander die from KM would be more wiser.
Can I take that expander ball out of my FL Type S??
Thx.
-Jeremy.
ps - sorry for reigniting a 5 year old thread!!!
jgrreed
Member
Nevermind - I built up my nerve and dismantled my FL sizing die. I guess I was just being lazy....
To answer my own question - the expander can't be removed per se, but rather replaced with a collet that still holds the decapping pin, but doesn't expand the neck.
-J.
To answer my own question - the expander can't be removed per se, but rather replaced with a collet that still holds the decapping pin, but doesn't expand the neck.
-J.
Redding's and RCBS's full length bushing dies are probably the best commercial ones to resize bottleneck cases. Sierra resizes all their fired cases in the Redding ones for accuracy test cartridges they're available for. Their match bullets shoot under 1/2 MOA in their 200 yard test range; 1/4 MOA or better groups are common. That's as good as short range benchrest aggregate records.
The only other commercial die that is a tiny bit better is one from Forster that they've honed the neck out to customer specs. Such dies make case necks a bit better centered on case bodies because they keep the neck sizing chamber perfectly aligned with the body chamber. Redding and RCBS bushing dies don't do that; their bushings float in a chamber with a couple thousandths clearance. But few people will be able to tell the difference shooting ammo from either one.
The only other commercial die that is a tiny bit better is one from Forster that they've honed the neck out to customer specs. Such dies make case necks a bit better centered on case bodies because they keep the neck sizing chamber perfectly aligned with the body chamber. Redding and RCBS bushing dies don't do that; their bushings float in a chamber with a couple thousandths clearance. But few people will be able to tell the difference shooting ammo from either one.
