rebarrel my remington or try a savage 111 lrh?

[Fitch]

I'd re-barrel the Remington in a heartbeat - it's a complete no-brainer.

For the price of an out of the box Savage you get a semi custom rifle with a world class barrel. Savage makes some nice rifles, but they aren't "that" nice. I've looked in the bore and chambers of a lot of Savages, I'm a fan of Savages, I own several, but I've never seen even one Savage factory barrel that should be mentioned in the same breath with the top quality custom barrels. Yes, there is "that" much difference.

If you want a rifle to shoot, start with the barrel. Very few factory rifles, and no Savage factory rifles, come with barrels that even begin to compete with the hand lapped custom barrels. The second part of having a rifle shoot is going to a Smith that knows how to get the most out of that barrel on your action. A top quality Smith will charge almost as much as the barrel costs and be worth every penny of it.

Fitch

 

[ewallace]

I would rebarrel the remington you will have a custom barrel that the savage dose not come close to I would blueprint the action but you dont have to you could just lap the lugs if you want to save some money. So you will have around 300 for a barrel and 175 for a chamber job that is 475 or true the action and add another 175 and have 650 into a good shooting rifle

 

[D.A.T.]

keep the pretty one

 

[cfvickers]

I agree with rebarreling the 700, but to say it will shoot so much better than the LRH is uneducated. Mine has been shooting groups regularly in the .2's and .3's. Short of competition, not much you can't do with that, and few rifles of any quality shoot better than that. I just like the fit and finish of the 700 and for the cost of the LRH you can get a very nice barrel installed and have a rifle you cannot get off the shelf.

Fitch, Can I ask where the layman with a rifle that feels good at his shoulder, weighs about what he wants it to, and shoots better than all but one of the several custom rifles he has loaded for, is going to notice "that much difference" I simply think 700s are prettier, my LRH is not, but the groups it shoots are gorgeous. It all depends on what you are after. If you want a nice rifle with a lot of features you would usually only find on a custom, and are far more concerned with how it shoots, the LRH is a good choice. If you want pretty it is completely out of the question. I am not saying there are no cons, but when building a hunting rifle, I have worked up loads f0r quite a few customs that cost 3,000 + that would not shoot with this rifle. Now how did hand lapping help these rifles, they are still 1/2-3/4 inch guns, which is respectable by any measure in a hunting weight rifle. You mention all of these things necessary to get a good shooting rifle, and a few years ago that was true, I just vehemently disagree now. If you have to spend that much on a factory rifle to make it shoot then you should get another gun. because it isn't necessary with them all. There is a 319.00 XL7 that shoots inside 3/4 with just about anything in my safe. Has a 70.00 scope on it. again, it isn't pretty, but function and accuracy is perfect.

There is a whole lot of personal preference in making the choice being discussed here. I would never begrudge anyones preference, we are all different, custom rifles are wonderful things, but that doesn't make them really any "better" from a functionality and accuracy standpoint. It is a matter of what you can spend, what you want to spend, and what you are really looking for in your rifle. I would encourage anyone to do what feels right and get what they are able. I greatly admire most custom rifles, but when on a budget, they aren't necessary. target rifles are a whole different story as 1000ths of an inch can be all the difference. And if thousandths make the difference to you in a hunting rifle, Spend the money, I will still think it is a very cool rifle, and if I had the money I would spend it.

Bottom line, I don't want to come across like I think you are altogether wrong, but it seems like the guy is making a choice based on what he will be getting for his money. With a custom, if you cannot go all out, you could be making a mistake. But you may hit it right the first time. If you get it wrong, then where are you.

 

[FEENIX]

cfvickers,

Well said! I know what you mean and I can relate.

I bought a used Savage 110 .270 at Scheel's for $ 199 (minus the scope).

I don't think it's the original stock and the previous owner had a go on trying to pretty it up. I bought the gun for the action as a possible donor for a DIY project and didn't care about the stock or bluing wear on the barrel.

Cleaned her up, adjusted the trigger down to 2.5 lbs, topped it with a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 (pre-sighted with a collimator).

Got a box of .150gr Federal ammo (cheapest one I can find at Scheel's - on sale for $11). First shot at a 100 yards was on paper. After minor adjustments, I ended up a consistent 3/4 MOA groupings.

I guess she's a keeper. I'll keep this ugly shooter as-is for now until the barrel is all shot out, perhaps she'll re-surface as a .264/6.5 wildcat (not sure which one at this time) ... have other rifles to hunt and shoot with, so I'm in no hurry.

BTW, I own Remingtons too!

 

[Fitch]

Fitch,

<snip>

Bottom line, I don't want to come across like I think you are altogether wrong, but it seems like the guy is making a choice based on what he will be getting for his money. With a custom, if you cannot go all out, you could be making a mistake. But you may hit it right the first time. If you get it wrong, then where are you.

No problem. Dialog is good.

The choice here is between re-barreling a Remington 700 that is in hand, or buying a new Savage LRH off the shelf for the same money. I'd re-barrel the Remington. I think it is the most cost effective and least risky way to get to a good, probably superb, shooting rifle from that starting point.

Not sure what you mean by "going all out". All that's necessary with a Remington action that used to shoot well, like this one did, is to do a good job of chambering and fitting the new barrel and re-bedding if a new recoil lug is fitted and the rifle was previously bedded. That isn't Rocket Science. Finding a Smith with a good reputation to chamber and fit a barrel to a Remington action, and bed it, isn't hard to do either. Savages are easiest to re-barrel, Remingtons are second easiest.

The action can be trued but that usually isn't necessary. As long as it's apart anyway, truing the receiver front face, replacing the recoil lug with a ground one, lapping the bolt lugs, and bedding the action to the stock isn't that hard or expensive to do. It won't hurt, and it might help. Truing the bolt lugs on a Remington is a waste of time unless the bolt is also shimmed because the bolt pivots to one lug support when the rifle is cocked anyway.

I've seen, and occasionally photographed, the inside of quite a few Savage barrels. Some are very good, like the barrel on my 112BVSS, the throat and crown of which are shown here:

The crown picture is after I re-crowned it. It looked like this before I re-crowned it:

Others are beyond ugly, like this throat in this brand new never fired except by the factory, .308 Savage Precision Carbine take off barrel:

Or the bore of my Model 10 .243 that had a 4" long section that looked like this:

You pay your money, you take your chances. Savage stands behind their rifles, so with a bit of luck if it has a bad barrel, they will make it right. Sometimes the rifle has to go back to them more than once, like when my buddies BVSS .22-250 was shooting 18" to the right of the receiver centerline at 100 yards, but they did fix it after the second trip. I've also seen Savage barrels that look ugly still shoot an inch or slightly less.

The best thing about a Savage is the action and the bolt design. The floating bolt head is a huge feature for several reasons, the most important being it doesn't move out of alignment to rest on one locking lug when the rifle is cocked like the Remington bolt does unless it's been shimmed. If the choice was between re-barreling a Savage and buying a new Remington I'd recommend re-barreling the Savage (and if the stock was ugly, replace it with one of the many choices readily available on the market).

Standing with empty hands looking for a new rifle, a Savage is very likely going to shoot better than most others on the market for the money. Some of them will shoot remarkably well. My LRPV (.22-250) was one of those. My BVSS (7mmMAG) is another.

When I'm standing there with empty hands buying a new rifle, I buy a Savage more often than not. One exception is the CZ527 American .223 I bought for a walk around varmint rifle. It is just plain awesome.

That said, I've never seen a Shilen, Lija, Heart, etc. barrel that looked like some of the Savage barrels I've seen. They don't get out of their factory, and if they do the smith will catch it in the pre-chambering inspection. Any Smith worth his pay will do a borescope inspection and slug a barrel before investing the time in chambering it. I do that on my own barrels (I don't do barrels, or anything else in the way of gunsmith work, for anybody but my wife and I).

We can agree to disagree. In this case I think re-barreling the Remington is the least risky path to what I would expect to be a very good shooting rifle. If the stock is prettier, that's a bonus. Stocks are easy to replace on high volume factory rifles like Savages and Remingtons.

Fitch

 

[roninflag]

i am sure you have never shot a rifle with a krieger barrel. put a kreiger on the 300.

 

[cfvickers]

Like I said, given the choice and already having the action, I would still go with rebarreling the Remington 700. If starting from scratch and having say, 1400.00 to spend on a gun scope, mounts bases, (dies and brass??) (what I had when I ordered my LRH) The Savage is likely the best deal going. if you have these things, and a good action and stock to build with, then rebarreling is a good option. I have just seen a lot of people go to do a simple rebarreling and end up WAY over budget trying to get it to shoot as good as the barrel should. Just a possibility you have to think about, and be somewhat prepared for. Good luck, and post pictures. I want to see them all regardless. I just like guns. I have hung out with and shoot with some guys that have no limit on spending, and I definitely appreciate custom, and want one! But I also have seen guys get in way too deep when they needed to cut corners, and would have in the end been happier with a higher end factory rifle for the same money. This is why I say if going custom go all out.