Realistic Accuracy from OTC guns?

[roninflag]

Jason,

You're exactly right. You can't make a predictable cold bore shot if you don't have repeatability. If a guy has the patience and just wants to fire a single shot each day, then so be it. He's still trying to establish a group or pattern of repeatbility.

If anyone still thinks groups aren't important for LRH, then I'd love to learn more about their load workup procedure and practice regimine.

-- richard

Richard - i agree. really depends on what you have at risk though and what you are trying to accomplish. . if you paid 7.5k to hunt whitetailes in sask. cananda; or you waited 10 or 15 years for mule deer hunt in the rut; i would want some serious repeatablity. roninflag

 

[cabinfever]

Absolutely........3/4 or less is possible with the right load and proper barrel break in. I have a savage weather warrior, model 700 remmy, and A bolt, that both shot sub 5/8 inch groups, and I have helped a number of other guys achieve sub 5/8 inch groups with production rifles.Finding the right load is more than half the battle. However, not all factory rifles are created equal.Some rifles won't shoot no matter what you do. I suggest you at least have the factory trigger lightened a bit.This can make a world of difference in accuracy.

 

[jflester]

I aquired an XS7 Marlin for around $300. I'm punching .75 MOA with it currently, and I'm still working up loads for it. So far RL15/45 with 165 SST Hornadys working fine.
So I suspect the 700s ought to do the same. My Win 270 from 1968 still drills .5 MOA and I would think with computer-aided machining equipment today, barrles would be more accurate.

 

[cummins cowboy]

in many cases factory guns will outshoot customs, in fact unless you HAVE to have some kind of special twist rate or something else I recommend just using a factory gun, maybe pimp it out with a mcmillian stock or something. you can always sell it if it will not shoot to your needs and just keep buying one till it does. however if 3/4 is what you want that should be pretty easy actually.

if you want a gun that is not fussy and will likely shoot to 3/4 on your first outing with no tinkering and the trigger is adjustable via the magazine well. I highly highly recommend a tikka.

rugers are nice for a hunting rifle however I don't like that the barrel does not come freefloated.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have seen some good shooting factory guns but not many will outperform custom guns. If you work on loads and tweek a factory gun, i believe most will shoot 1 moa. Good stocks and proper bedding will usually help. Accuracy will help when the distances become greater. 1 moa means 10 inches at 1000 yards and if you can tweek to .5 moa it is now 5 inches. Matt

 

[Natty Bumpo]

You're getting Sapphire's hopes up too much. Dealer shelves are not overflowing with sub-MOA guns. I've got a few over the counter guns that will consistently put 3-5 bullets inside of an inch at 100 yards with a decent load. I've also got a few guns that will occasionally perform like that, but that realistically are more like 1.25" to 1.5" guns. Unless your rifle comes with a guarantee, don't be disappointed if you can't get much better than 1.5" at 100 yards out of it.

I've been to a few tactical and F-Class shoots over the last couple years; shooting 5-shots prone w/ bipod at 100 yard intervals out to 800 yards. For all the internet chat I read about everyone's sub MOA or 1/2 MOA rifles, when it comes time to score targets, I don't see many sub MOA rifles out there (or should I say rifle shooters?).

By the way, for the last several years, I've been using a Ruger M77 in .25-06 for all my deer hunting. Have killed several deer from 40 to 200 yards with it. It's no more than a 1.5 MOA gun. Not my first choice for putting holes in paper at 500 yards, but plenty precise for the type of deer hunting I do.

 

[Joaquin B]

My otc all factory model 70 with factory 26" will shoot <1moa with HSM factory ammo if my Army friend shoots it off the bench. I can't do it tho. I do however shoot 4 inch groups at 425 yrds. I dont put a lot of stock in groups tho. Hunting is about one cold bore shot, or perhaps two, thats all. The group stuff is for paper punchers and techys.

Yep! Hunting IS about cold bore shots! When I develop loads, I will take the load that produced the best group out of my rifle at 200 meters, use it to load another 5 rounds and again hit the range, this time shooting at 300 meters. I will take 1 shot, wait ~5 minutes for the barrel to cool and repeat the process until I have made a 5-shot group at 300 meters. This lets me know if the rifle is capable of making consistent cold bore shots. Actually, if you have a good load developed, a group shot in this fashion will usually be a little tighter than if the shots are taken one right after the other.

 

[sp6x6]

I have seen some good shooting factory guns but not many will outperform custom guns. If you work on loads and tweek a factory gun, i believe most will shoot 1 moa. Good stocks and proper bedding will usually help. Accuracy will help when the distances become greater. 1 moa means 10 inches at 1000 yards and if you can tweek to .5 moa it is now 5 inches. Matt

Matt, I am not pcking at your post, I agree to an extent. But the analogy, of .5 moa at 1000 is way to simplified, that that =5''. There are to many other variables that come up in the LR format that make this unreasonable.Wind, shooter error, magnified over distance, mirage , and many things. I hang around some bench shooters that have considerable time and money involved,that shoot bug holes at 300 testing and have a hard time holding 5'' @ 1000. I have several factory guns that have shot 1/2 to 5/8 at 100, but do not hold it as it get further. Reliable 6-800 yrds.

 

[dkhunt14]

I was referring to getting your gun shooting as good as possible. Using the .5 and minute of angle to show it is better if you get your gun shooting better. Yes the farther the distance the harder it is, that is why you should get your gun as good as possible. We shoot a lot of groundhogs at 1000 to 1500 yards and a 1 minute gun is not going to kill many. I have averaged .5 minute of angle in the six match group aggs at 1000 for the last 3 years so i know how hard that is. I work real hard at getting my gun to shoot. Matt

 

[sp6x6]

Yes Matt, That was my point for the OP, your last post reminded me off a recent conversation where a bench buddy was asked by a guy coming down to a local shoot, about 5 shot groups, He does the 1000 Penns, type shooting, and he replied , " no we make you proof it". I got a kick out of that, relates to some of the earlier replies to prep and consistency , their format is 10 shot groups.