Rangefinder help

[Pro2A]

I bot the Sig2400 after hearing from a friend (and watching his work) how much he loves his. As other will say, the better data you input - the better solutions will be. AND - take everything to the range and test the readings. I echo the tripod comment - it's hard with a 7x optic to range a small (antelope) at 700+ yards. In other words, hard to hold it steady enough to be sure you are ranging the animal and not a sagebrush that might be 75 yards closer. Real example - a buddy and I put a small metal coyote out at 1,100 yards. I had to have the RF on a tripod to make sure I was ranging the target. . . there was a berm about 100 yards closer and the target was just above that. Use it, get used to it. I sold my Leica 1500 to help pay for it One comment - you can enter 4 different rifles in the app and then upload them to the RF. In the RF you can pick the one you want to use. BUT - can you remember which rifle was 1, 2, 3 or 4? The RF only displays the number, you cannot change it to say 6.5, 7mm, 7RUM or the like - only 1 2 3 or 4. Seems like no problem until you are out there and forget to check

My gun club banned the Sig2400 for just that reason. Individuals would choose the incorrect number and send a round over the berm and off the property. Became a liability issue. I had earlier complained to Sig about that issue. They just laughed. Didn't think it was an issue. Now about 900 shooters can't use their product at our range. It is a safety issue. Maybe a law suit or two will sober them up. And, you can only save 4 profiles on Sig2400 versus ten on the Kestrel 5700ABS, which allows meaningful profile descriptors. I dumped the Sig and bought Safran Vectronix Terrapin X. Much better RF. (Check out Nick Vitalbo's (with NVisti) evaluation of a broad array of RFs.) Links to the Kestrel 5700 AB Elite. Buy once; cry once; never look back.

 

[brcfo_outdoors]

My gun club banned the Sig2400 for just that reason. Individuals would choose the incorrect number and send a round over the berm and off the property. Became a liability issue. I had earlier complained to Sig about that issue. They just laughed. Didn't think it was an issue. Now about 900 shooters can't use their product at our range. It is a safety issue. Maybe a law suit or two will sober them up. And, you can only save 4 profiles on Sig2400 versus ten on the Kestrel 5700ABS, which allows meaningful profile descriptors. I dumped the Sig and bought Safran Vectronix Terrapin. Much better RF. Links to the Kestrel 5700 AB Elite. Buy once; cry once; never look back.

Sig sells firearms, I think they understand the inherent liability of their products. Not remembering which number corresponds to which rifle profile that takes 2 seconds to check on the app is user error. I would not hold my breath for that lawsuit, except maybe the gun club getting sued for not having high enough berms.

 

[Pro2A]

Sig sells firearms, I think they understand the inherent liability of their products. Not remembering which number corresponds to which rifle profile that takes 2 seconds to check on the app is user error. I would not hold my breath for that lawsuit, except maybe the gun club getting sued for not having high enough berms.

User error is what wins huge judgments. 75ft berms still can't cure stupid or human "aw *****." The more cryptic a system component the more it facilitates "aw *****." We mere mortals have them. Guess you've never had one?????

 

[Greyfox]

I have been using the G7(both versions) since introduction with excellent results on dozens of game and coyotes to 1200+ yards. Also seeking less size and weight, I bought the Sig 2400 a few years back. When functional, it works works well and has some additional features(finer/automatic reticle illumination/ advanced ballistic programming) that are quite nice. Perhaps I got a couple of bum units, and know of people that have had good success with the 2400, but reliability/functional issues which cost me shots on game, even after being returned for repair, resulted In my shelving the 2400, and returning to the G7. It continues to perform flawlessly with high reliability. An invaluable attribute of the G7 that, IMO, trumps all other RF's I have used is the "Tru-Targeting" filter system. Once one has learned how to use it, forward and rearward target interferences can be very quickly discerned without having to re-enter the programming mode. Additionally, the combination of this feature with a slightly larger beam size enables very accurate ranging on game out to 500+ yards, off-hand, without the need for a steady rest.
I also own both the original Terrapin and the recently introduced Terrapin-X, both used with Kestrel 5700. These set-ups with very long range ranging capability and advanced programming are used mainly for ELR shooting, and PRS competition, but for me,are too slow(and bulky) to suit my LR hunting needs.

 

[brcfo_outdoors]

User error is what wins huge judgments. 75ft berms still can't cure stupid or human "aw *****." The more cryptic a system component the more it facilitates "aw *****." We mere mortals have them. Guess you've never had one?????

I am legitimately not sure what you are attempting to say with the asterisks. Miscalculating the dope to miss a 75' berm, even at 1000 yards is gross negligence. Take the 1000 yard example, it comes down to 1.) using the absolute wrong caliber for the scenario (whether it is the one the person is actually shooting, or the one that is programmed into the LRF), and then 2.) not having the wherewithal to realize that the drop is off by 25 mils. Everybody screws up, myself include, there is no doubt about that. I, however, have never missed a target by 75', especially in a closed environment like a range. As you aptly put, sometimes you can't cure stupid even if with a 75' wall. I think you and I are agreeing that these are the actions of incompetent individuals, or someone who is not proficient enough as a shooter to be attempting targets at longer ranges. Where we differ is just how "cryptic" you believe the programming is. Ultimately, its not Sig's fault if someone gets behind a range finder without knowing how to use it and misses, just like its not Toyota's fault if someone gets behind the wheel without knowing how to drive and crashes.

 

[Pro2A]

The "****" are apparently LRH's automated word police. I had typed "aw excrement" using four letter version for a really big screw-up. Those past moments are the reason for 75' berms now. While one probably won't put one over those berms on our range, in hunting one doesn't have 75' berms. A wrong profile typically means a miss at least or a very errant round with possibly disastrous results....ricochet.....round over a ridge crest......wrong animal down, etc. Shooting several MRAD change barrels plus .50BMG/.416B with bullets from 100-850gr over 10 calibers and multiple barrel lengths/profiles one could easily have drastically varying profiles and select profile 3 rather than profile 4 on a Sig2400 in an "aw ****" moment with disastrous results. One shouldn't, but the potential increases with such cryptic designations. That's what an "aw ****" moment is. The cryptic designation contributes to one of those moments. Some see potential problem; others don't....or ignore/accept. That's where I made my money seeing the same inputs as everyone else, but envisioning different relationships and outcomes upon which to capitalize.....or to preclude those "aw ****" probabilities for appreciative clients. Sig2400 cryptic designations are not acceptable for me...or the club. ....YMMV. Enjoy your Sig2400. We all pay and play as we see fit. Thanks for your perspective and thoughts. Safe hunting and shooting.

 

[LRNut]

I have owned a bunch of rangefinders over the years. I had a Leica Geovid with the ballistics corrections. My observations:
1. This unit uses a lookup table and then corrects for atmospheric conditions; it does not use a true ballistics program
2. Glass and speed of RF are fantastic


I loved the BR7 when it came out, but it lacks the following:
1. Doesn't compensate for spin or aerodynamic jump
2. I don't think it comps for Coriolis but since it doesn't handle No1 I would be stunned if handled Coriolis
3. The wind settings are too coarse but I do like I how you can toggle them relatively quickly. But at 1000 yards, I am trying to be better than 5 or 10 mph...
4. Rangefinder is slow


The SIG2400 ABS is far better than the above:
1. Handles spin drift (I zero at 500 for elevation, then use a 200 zero with a horizontal offset so that spin drift is zero at 500).
2 Handles aero jump: you plug in a strong wind from left to right and you will have to a click of elevation; right to left you take it off.
3. Handles coriolis
4. Inputting data with the iPhone is pretty slick
5. It handles angles (hills) really well
6. Rangefinder always measures, but it is hard to hold steady. I range several times including objects around my target to ensure I have the correct range.

The bad:
1. Battery indicator will show 100% bars then die
2. The gun profile issue is real, but for heaven's sake, if you don't realize the elevation at 700 or 1000 or 1200 is not correct, you seriously haven't practiced that much. That said, if you look at the display on your iPhone, it will show the MV etc - showing you the profile. If hunting, just unselect all but the rifle you are using and you can't screw it up.
3. While you can choose a wind speed down to the nearest 1 mph, you almost have to use your iPhone. And that isn't flawless, because as you spin the wind direction with your finger and then sync, it is easy to touch the face of the phone and change the direction. Happened to me on Sat - but I knew a wind of 2 mph from 9 required more than .2 MOA at 894 yards - I had touched 12 o'clock just after syncing. Fixed it and shot.
4. I took the SIG to my Colorado place two weeks ago at 8500 feet. Shot an Edge at 822 yards; SIG said to come down 3/4 MOA from what would be normal in AZ. Fully expected to hear a "doink" when I pulled the trigger. Nothing. Shot again; this time I hit the very top of the 20" plate. Came down another MOA and shot three more shots throughout the day in various wind conditions, all of them within 5" of center. Thought maybe my Edge had somehow shifted zero, but when I got back to AZ I shot it at 800 using 15.25 and E 1.5W and hit my 3" circle. So now I am wondering if the barometric pressure analyzer is working correctly. I will say in the past a 700 yard shot normally requires about 1 MOA less E, but going from memory. I will return in July and bring both RFs and two different rifles.
5. The SIG will heat up if left in the sun; you need to check the displayed temp vs what is real. Doesn't matter normally but at 1200 it might cause you to be 1/2 MOA high. Why anyone makes these in black is stupid.

Personally, I can't see buying any RF that doesn't have an advanced ballistics program. I don't want to have to look at a kestrel; I want the solution in my RF.

My next RF will be Trijicon's Ventus. Knowing the wind, if only to 500, will be huge.

 

[Shawn1234]

Thanks for all the comments, i still haven't figured out my best course of action. I'm starting to think maybe a nice pair of range finding binos might be the way to go. Something like the Ziess victory rf. It looks like you can upload your custom ballistics to it similar to inputting them in my G7 rangefinder, and they take angle, pressure and temp into account, also like the G7 rangefinder. Their crazy expensive but if they gave me the correct shooting solution like my G7 does, I could sell the G7 and my decent pair of Leupold binos and recoup some of the cost. I just wish I could use a pair to make sure they were going to work properly before biting the bullet.

 

[Greyfox]

I own a G7, Sig 2400 Leica Geovid, Terrapin, and TerrapinX(the latter two paired with a Kestrel 5700). Perhaps a bit overdone, but a career in the scientific instrumentation/optics industry induced an interest in RF technology. While the G7 is larger then I would prefer, and lacks some of the advanced features that the others offer, the G7 continues to be my go-to for LRH. For over 10 years it has has gotten the job done out to 1000+ yards on dozens of animals with accurate performance and excellent reliability.

 

[LRNut]

I own a G7, Sig 2400 Leica Geovid, Terrapin, and TerrapinX(the latter two paired with a Kestrel 5700). Perhaps a bit overdone, but a career in the scientific instrumentation/optics industry induced an interest in RF technology. While the G7 is larger then I would prefer, and lacks some of the advanced features that the others offer, the G7 continues to be my go-to for LRH. For over 10 years it has has gotten the job done out to 1000+ yards on dozens of animals with accurate performance and excellent reliability.

I don't know Greyfox; I have the G7 and the lack of spin drift and aero jump is a real negative. Today I smacked targets at 840 and 857 with two different rifles. Granted, the wind was mild but not having to think about spin was a big advantage.

 

[Greyfox]

I don't know Greyfox; I have the G7 and the lack of spin drift and aero jump is a real negative. Today I smacked targets at 840 and 857 with two different rifles. Granted, the wind was mild but not having to think about spin was a big advantage.

For my shots in game I have made beyond 1000 yards, spin drift and Coriolis are simple corrections that ate easily corrected mentally, I was doing this before any ballistic RF's even had those capabilities. At those same ranges I have not taken game shots at wind speeds where the lack of aerodynamic jump calculations proved relevant. I'm willing to trade off the advanced ballistics of some of the RF's against the G7's features that enable you to quickly and accurately range game with complex interferences. IMO, this is where the G7 excels. Speed of accurate ranging for me is a critical factor. I will use the advanced ballistics of my Terrapin/Kestrel for ELR target shooting.