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Ramshot Hunter, 280 Ackley Improved

I ordered IOSSO paste on Amazon. That's what the thread previously posted about carbon rings mentioned. Is the boretech stuff better?
You're going to need both. IOSSO is a good paste for dep scrubbing but you'll need to alternate it with something like the Boretech Carbon Eliminator to break it down in layers.

Think of having several hundred layers of paint that is heat fixed under 55,000lbs psi with each new layer.

That's how the carbon rings form and build, layer upon layer, upon layer of carbon bonded to the barrel under extreme pressure and heat.

Unfortunately there's just no real fast route to clearing it up, the only way to do it is with a lot of hard work and the right equipment/chemicals.
 
No pressure. Velocities were pretty constant. That group ended up being .586 center to center.

Seems like the rifle is back to where it was.
That's good to hear but it's all but certain you still have a serious carbon ring issue.

Because the tolerances are so high inside your bore with the bullet actually being a slightly larger diameter than the bore itself you can go from no pressure to seriously dangerous pressure due to carbon build up in just a few rounds.

Basically you go from perfectly snug to way too tight in just a shot or two.

No doubt you're removed at least a little of it with what you've already done but you really need to follow the process through or you're likely to be back at the same point or even worse of very soon if you don't.
 
Couldn't it have just been copper fouling? All I'm shooting are copper bullets….
Yes, and it most likely was, I no longer shoot as much as I once did, I shot my first prairie dogs and rock chucks over 50 years ago I would make annual trips to Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska and the Dakota's. Each year to do so, I'm not sure if one can realilisticly fire more shoots in one place at one time than a good prairie dog town, back in the 90's and early turn of the 21st century, gun writer chuck cornett put together what was called the prairie dog conference. 72 shooters in all, 60 registered paying shooters 12 gun writers, shooters from as far as franch and Italy attended, gun writers such as bill jordan, Lyne Simpson, Jon sundra, Craig boddington, and bob jordan, to name a few. Industry people like lex webbernek from rifles inc, Ross spagrud from prairie gun works, john lazzeroni, JB hodgdon, and others, as well representatives Burris and lieca savage and sierra, people that know they're stuff, these shoots took place on reservations in Montana or Nebraska, it was a 3 day event with two days of shooting, if one is properly prepared you can shoot a couple thousand rounds on a good prairt dog shoot, at the end of each day we would gather in the motel parking lot and have gun cleaning contest, between sips of scotch and wiffs of hoppies many things would be discussed, from the old timers it might be how much Elmer Keith and jack 0'conner disliked each other to what's more fun, shooting prairie dogs or monkeys in Africa, to who made the longest shot, the geovid had just hit the market and was very popular with the prairie dog crowd, lord they were big heavy and expensive. But proper gun cleaning always came up, much was to be learned during such events, hyper velocity vs high bc hard to over look the red mist affect, how often should one clean, What to clean with, Molly coated bullets, how hot do you let the barrel get, in the end we all had a good time, and always learned something new and made friends, when it come to cleaning each gun is different, some loose accuracy after only 20 rds, so depending on the guns intended propose this may be fine, but certainly not very desirable, a favorite gun of mine is a sako in 17 Remington, I had 154 rounds thru it befor it became to hot to continue so I let it cool, I never got back to this gun on that trip, upon returning and before cleaning I fired a 5 shot group that came in under 7/10ths not much larger than when the barrel was clean, most of what you hear about the 17 is that it fouls quickly, not necessarily true, so for varmint shooting when you start missing the easy shots its time clean, or change rifles, if you can't Grab and hold onto your barrel for more than a second or two its to hot to keep shooting, time to slow way down or stop, on a good shoot that's hard to do, carbon build up may or may not have been part of the problem with your rifle, but copper most certainly was, carbon can be a real problem, the fix is to not let it build up again hard to do or tell, hot barrels carbon fowl quicker and worse than cool barrels, not knowing how you plan to use this rifle, but since you are shooting a x bullet likely big game, so a over heated barrel may be fairly easy to avoid, so try resist the urge to keep shooting when the barrel is hot, clean often, most won't shoot enough rounds thru a big game rifle in a single season for fowling to be a issue, most of my rifles I will clean if time allows if more than ten rounds have been fired down the bore, one never knows what the next trip will bring so I like to always start with a clean barrel, invest in good bore brushes patches and bore jags, you need more than one solvent, I like hoppies bench rest number 9, and Barnes CR10, I like sweets as well, I used to be on the Barnes bullets advisory board and been using x bullets since they became available I might be a little bias, when I clean I start with the hoppies saturate a bronze brush with solvent and run in thru the bore 10 or 12 times and let sit for 10 to 15 minutes, this works well to remove powder residue light carbon and allows the CR10 to work on the copper, clean the brush with acetone or alcohol, take a snug fitting patch on a bore jag and patch dry, run a saturated patch of acetone or alcohol, then patch the bore dry again, now attack the bore with a patch saturated with the CR10 just push thru and let set about 15 minute you may have to repeat this several times, hoppies used to be advertised as hoppies#9 nitro bore cleaner, however someone decided the nitrobenzene was to harmful so it was removed, this worked well on carbon, I still have a limited supply so only use it occasionally, so if one ever runs across a old bottle check the label it may be the good stuff, Another product to keep on hand is break free CLP, cleaner lubricant and protection, the cleaner cuts carbon well, it also might be the best rust protectant on the market, if you suspect a carbon problem plug the chamber and pour enough into the bore to attack the problem area, then stand in a corner overnight, clean and patch dry, with all the varmint shooting I've done carbon has never been a issue for me, having shotout a number of barrels and even border line abused with some of them I was able to squeak out 6 to 8 thousand rounds before I called it quits, again heat is the enemy most large center fire rifles could be ruined in 200 rounds if fired fast enough,
 
You can tell by the black on the tail. 5 different types muledeer not counting blacktail. Burro deer down south/ desert get some big racks. Inyo and Rocky mtn. species in Sierras get big but east side they migtlrate back and forth from Nevada. I burned my points last year and drew X12 . Hunted out of Bridgeport and in Bodie state park. X12 my favorite hunt there. Shot a nice 4x4 e/eyegaurds . I've only shot one blacktail in Ca.. Was out of Weaverville. The hybrid muley/blacktail are getting common in L.A. county. I lived in San Bernardino and San Diego counties for most my life. Hunted Wy. for 37 years before moving . Glad I'm out of Ca.. Beautiful state that has everything. One party ruined it... Look at the pictures of the different tails on F&G website. I'm not calling it Jerry Brown's new name. I still have max pts. for elk there. Non res tag is over $1500.00 ! What a joke. Other states half that. Awesome BLACKTAIL buck anyway ! 😉
Oh yeah , baI've never drawn a x12 tag, Bridgeport is less than 2 1/2 hrs away, Ive been going there for over 50 years now,

You can tell by the black on the tail. 5 different types muledeer not counting blacktail. Burro deer down south/ desert get some big racks. Inyo and Rocky mtn. species in Sierras get big but east side they migtlrate back and forth from Nevada. I burned my points last year and drew X12 . Hunted out of Bridgeport and in Bodie state park. X12 my favorite hunt there. Shot a nice 4x4 e/eyegaurds . I've only shot one blacktail in Ca.. Was out of Weaverville. The hybrid muley/blacktail are getting common in L.A. county. I lived in San Bernardino and San Diego counties for most my life. Hunted Wy. for 37 years before moving . Glad I'm out of Ca.. Beautiful state that has everything. One party ruined it... Look at the pictures of the different tails on F&G website. I'm not calling it Jerry Brown's new name. I still have max pts. for elk there. Non res tag is over $1500.00 ! What a joke. Other states half that. Awesome BLACKTAIL buck anyway ! 😉
Oh yeah , back to topic ! Sorry!!!
I was pretty excited over that one, its only the second nontypical blacktail I'd ever seen, I found that honey hole he was living in back in the 70's while quail hunting, took a number of deer there over the years, 3 of them wall hangers, if you have a Barnes num 4 manual there is a pic of one of them on page 89, sadly this summer that area burned, it was in the middle of the two hundred thousand acre caldor fire, and it ain't gonna grow back in my life time, I've never drawn a x12 tag, Bridgeport is 2 1/2 hrs away, been going there for 50 some years, if i ever win the lottery im gonna buy bridgeport and kick everybody out, great trout fishing, these days im saving my points for one of the december hunts, I try and get down there 10 or 12 times a year, but with gas being 6 dollars a gallon might be awhile before I go back,
 
I bought a cheap bore scope on Amazon.

I did not find a carbon ring.

What I did find, was quite a bit of copper in the last third of the barrel. No doubt because I have a bore brush that is too short so I was focusing on the first two thirds of the barrel.

Second, the first three inches or so of the barrel is darker in color than the rest of the barrel. I'm assuming that's carbon. Hoppes first do a **** thing. I scrubbed and scrubbed. So I'm hopeful that iosso or JB will do the trick. Amazon says I have to wait a couple weeks until it arrives.

I also ordered a 44 inch, one piece cleaning rod.

When all this gets here, I'll be scrubbing that barrel for a while.

Thank you everyone!
 
Second, the first three inches or so of the barrel is darker in color than the rest of the barrel.
From the action forward or Muzzle backward?

If it's the first three inches or so in front of the chamber/action, that's your carbon ring it's just considerably larger than most.

Boretech Carbon remover alternated with the bore paste is probably your only long term solution.

Be sure and get yourself a good cleaning rod that is long enough to run the full length of the bore with each stroke for your general cleaning.

For working on the carbon ring/deposit any rod will do but for full length cleaning I really prefer a solid brass or epoxy coated stainless rod.
 
I bought a cheap bore scope on Amazon.

I did not find a carbon ring.

What I did find, was quite a bit of copper in the last third of the barrel. No doubt because I have a bore brush that is too short so I was focusing on the first two thirds of the barrel.

Second, the first three inches or so of the barrel is darker in color than the rest of the barrel. I'm assuming that's carbon. Hoppes first do a **** thing. I scrubbed and scrubbed. So I'm hopeful that iosso or JB will do the trick. Amazon says I have to wait a couple weeks until it arrives.

I also ordered a 44 inch, one piece cleaning rod.

When all this gets here, I'll be scrubbing that barrel for a while.

Thank you everyone!
That's awesome. Bummer it burned though. I think I have all of Barnes manuals . Great trout fishing all over East Sierra's.. I guess we should be using PM. We're gonna get verbally spanked . Lol
 
I bought a cheap bore scope on Amazon.

I did not find a carbon ring.

What I did find, was quite a bit of copper in the last third of the barrel. No doubt because I have a bore brush that is too short so I was focusing on the first two thirds of the barrel.

Second, the first three inches or so of the barrel is darker in color than the rest of the barrel. I'm assuming that's carbon. Hoppes first do a **** thing. I scrubbed and scrubbed. So I'm hopeful that iosso or JB will do the trick. Amazon says I have to wait a couple weeks until it arrives.

I also ordered a 44 inch, one piece cleaning rod.

When all this gets here, I'll be scrubbing that barrel for a while.

Thank you everyone!
From the action forward or Muzzle backward?

If it's the first three inches or so in front of the chamber/action, that's your carbon ring it's just considerably larger than most.

Boretech Carbon remover alternated with the bore paste is probably your only long term solution.

Be sure and get yourself a good cleaning rod that is long enough to run the full length of the bore with each stroke for your general cleaning.

For working on the carbon ring/deposit any rod will do but for full length cleaning I really prefer a solid brass or epoxy coated stainless rod.
From the action forward.

So that's what a carbon ring is? I googled images of "carbon ring" and then showed a thin black line in a bore.

Apparently, I have a carbon ring and some copper build up.

What causes this? The particular powder I am using? A quirk in this particular barrel?
 
I bought a cheap bore scope on Amazon.

I did not find a carbon ring.

What I did find, was quite a bit of copper in the last third of the barrel. No doubt because I have a bore brush that is too short so I was focusing on the first two thirds of the barrel.

Second, the first three inches or so of the barrel is darker in color than the rest of the barrel. I'm assuming that's carbon. Hoppes first do a **** thing. I scrubbed and scrubbed. So I'm hopeful that iosso or JB will do the trick. Amazon says I have to wait a couple weeks until it arrives.

I also ordered a 44 inch, one piece cleaning rod.

When all this gets here, I'll be scrubbing that barrel for a while.

Thank you everyone!

From the action forward.

So that's what a carbon ring is? I googled images of "carbon ring" and then showed a thin black line in a bore.

Apparently, I have a carbon ring and some copper build up.

What causes this? The particular powder I am using? A quirk in this particular barrel?
Shooting causes it. The more overbore the cartridge and smaller the diameter of the bullet the quicker they seem to become problematic.
 
I bought a cheap bore scope on Amazon.

I did not find a carbon ring.

What I did find, was quite a bit of copper in the last third of the barrel. No doubt because I have a bore brush that is too short so I was focusing on the first two thirds of the barrel.

Second, the first three inches or so of the barrel is darker in color than the rest of the barrel. I'm assuming that's carbon. Hoppes first do a **** thing. I scrubbed and scrubbed. So I'm hopeful that iosso or JB will do the trick. Amazon says I have to wait a couple weeks until it arrives.

I also ordered a 44 inch, one piece cleaning rod.

When all this gets here, I'll be scrubbing that barrel for a while.

Thank you everyone!

From the action forward.

So that's what a carbon ring is? I googled images of "carbon ring" and then showed a thin black line in a bore.

Apparently, I have a carbon ring and some copper build up.

What causes this? The particular powder I am using? A quirk in this particular barrel?

Shooting causes it. The more overbore the cartridge and smaller the diameter of the bullet the quicker they seem to become problematic.
That darker color you are seeing may not be carbon ( although it could ) at 600 rounds this is normal but is the beginning stages of what is called heat checking or flame cutting, as time goes on it will begin to look like a alligators hide, some refer to it as alligatoring, go to u-tube bore scope or hawkeye, and look over some of the videos, there is a lot to be seen there, might help you to better understand what you are looking at, Ron spoomer has a excellent video on this, something else to keep in your bag of tricks for cleaning is a tube of flitz or semichrome, I have both can't tell one from the other, very mild abrasive polish that cleans and shines, I prefer using this to other bore paste and it cleans up better, I got my bore scope about 30 years ago, they were a new tool to shooters then, I made all my shooting buddies bring there rifles over, or I went to them just so I could get a feel for what I was looking at, one of the first things I learned was, pretty barrels don't always shoot well and a ugly barrel could be amazingly accurate, knowing how many rounds have been fired down a barrel really helps understand what you're looking at,
 
I received the slip 2000 carbon remover that someone recommended today. It's awesome stuff, cleaned my bolt up with hardly any effort. I was totally impressed by it and can highly recommend it.

It is water based, so follow their instructions. After applying, clean it out and then add a light coating of gun oil. I ran two dry patches through the barrel and then three passes with a bore snake. Then a patch soaked in Lucas gun oil followed by two more passes with a snake.

I scoped the barrel before and after. There really was no difference. Which leads me to believe that I'm probably seeing what Brett suggested, heat checking.

Someone recommended simichrone as well which just arrived. I'll try that too and report back.
 
That darker color you are seeing may not be carbon ( although it could ) at 600 rounds this is normal but is the beginning stages of what is called heat checking or flame cutting, as time goes on it will begin to look like a alligators hide, some refer to it as alligatoring, go to u-tube bore scope or hawkeye, and look over some of the videos, there is a lot to be seen there, might help you to better understand what you are looking at, Ron spoomer has a excellent video on this, something else to keep in your bag of tricks for cleaning is a tube of flitz or semichrome, I have both can't tell one from the other, very mild abrasive polish that cleans and shines, I prefer using this to other bore paste and it cleans up better, I got my bore scope about 30 years ago, they were a new tool to shooters then, I made all my shooting buddies bring there rifles over, or I went to them just so I could get a feel for what I was looking at, one of the first things I learned was, pretty barrels don't always shoot well and a ugly barrel could be amazingly accurate, knowing how many rounds have been fired down a barrel really helps understand what you're looking at,
This is true.

The problem is you get the same "alligator skin" look with the carbon ring so it can be very deceptive.

To really examine how advance the throat erosion from the "heat checking" and pressure is you still have to clean it the same way.

I had a couple of barrels I thought were toast with a cursory look but proved to just have the carbon ring problem when I had my GS do a more thorough inspection.
 
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