Ramblings and Such From Hunting Coyote

[DMP25-06]

I have only seen 2 mountain lions in the wild , and that occurred in November 1983 .
I was hunting on a large ranch in New Mexico , east of Raton by 40 miles , and along the Colorado/NM state line . I was slowly moving through heavy timber , along the top of a rock shelf , when 2 lions came out from under the over-hanging shelf , not seeing me , and briefly stopped at a distance of 15 - 20 yards from me , and began looking around for whatever noise that had disturbed them ( ME ). I think that I had probably disturbed their morning cat-nap . I had my rifle up and ready , and they disappeared the moment that they saw me . I did not shoot because I had no lion license , but it was a thrilling encounter . I think that they were both young lions and I estimate about 125 pounds or slightly larger . Looking into their eyes , it was like they briefly considered me to be on the menu .
That evening , at our camp meal , the NM game warden visited us for dinner , at our invitation , and asked how the deer hunting had been . The senior members of our group said that the deer were just not as plentiful as in past years and asked Warden Jim if he had any explanation why . The warden said that big cats had been hard on the deer , elk , and some livestock in the area , and had any of us seen any sign .
I told him of my sighting of the 2 lions earlier that morning , and he asked if I had shot at them . I told him no , I did not have a license , and I did not want to go to jail .
His reply was that I should have shot 1 or both lions , without license , because of the livestock depredation , and that if I happened upon them again , shoot , and contact him to remove the carcasses . He said that the ranchers had been informed to remove the cats .

Had I only known beforehand .
Beautiful animals that move so quietly and glide along the ground , like they are not touching the earth .

DMP25-06

 

[DSheetz]

I have seen lions take 20 feet bounds when on the move . Other wise they do seem to float and can walk so quiet even in dry leaves and grass . If they don't move most people don't see them they blend in well .

 

[Reemty J]

We had a young tom lion (100#) on the ground one time, 3 dogs had it bayed up, I was waiting for a slow walking friend of my buddies to get there and shoot it before it got a hold of one of the dogs....it got a hold of one of the hounds by the ear so I got behind it (4' away) with a .22 Smith & Wesson auto with hollow points and put a round where its neck met its skull. Down went the lion and the 3 dogs jump on it, all of a sudden up jumps the lion. So once again I put a round in the same spot, down goes the lion, all the dogs jump on it and up jumps the lion. I am yelling at the shooter to get over here, he finally shoots the lion with a .22 magnum and kills it. Next day I bought a 687 Smith & Wesson in .357......had lions on the ground after that and one shot takes them out. For those who have not been around a lion on the ground with hounds, they focus totally on the dogs, they are aware of you but they kinda ignore you.
My point is DSheetz, if you had a 9 shot revolver it most probably a .22...............poor lion medicine, but YMMV.

 

[Reemty J]

in 10 years of chasing lions with hounds along with a taxidermy friend, weighing most that were killed...Toms we caught, ranged from 100-165 # bulk of them are 120-140 and females ranged from 70-112# bulk of them 80-100#.....like most things they look bigger than they are......but when you have an adult Tom dead on the ground, his shoulder muscles are harder than you can imagine and very developed like a weight lifter on roids. Also a Tom can be 10-15 #'s heavier after he feeds on a kill.....that 165# Tom we killed, his stomach was empty...he would have been 175-180# full of meat. A lion is just like you also, after a big meal he doesn't travel far, when he does travel its on an empty belly....they can go for days without eating, but when they do eat, they fill up. Last tom I killed (2002), weighed 152# and he had killed a bighorn 3/4 curl ram the day before right before dark, by the next morning he had eaten both hind quarters and all the organs...........I knew when he killed him as we backed tracked him to see how he killed it and there was just a light amount of snow in his tracks, it quit snowing between 4:00 and 4:30......doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, you just have to read the white pages (the snow). He was within 30' of that ram when he started his rush, on the uphill side.

 

[74honker]

Unreal cat stories! My one question is while I know as a former trapper the .22 is the choice for less damage to the fur do you guys prefer the big cal revolvers for the power or why not something like a 10mm or .45 auto with bigger capacity? If I was standing there shaking like Barney Fife crapping my pants I would need as many bullets as I could stuff in lol. I guess if something went bad you really probably only have seconds anyway.

 

[DSheetz]

It was a 22 I use it for a trapping gun . And I have seen them on the ground, up a tree and running before . I skinned a few I really don't like the smell of them . I skinned a 110 lb. tom for a friend so he could get a full body mount not sure of it's age but he sure was musky . When you look at all cats skinned they have awesome shoulders and legs both front and back but the front are bigger by far . You can look at them and tell they were built for killing by biting then holding on until it suffocates it pray . I was up to a call one time the rancher had a calf taken from his calving shed . He was cussing those coyote . We went in and he showed me the stall the calf was taken from it had 1x6 pine boards spaced 4 " apart and 5 feet high the bottom board was nearly on the floor . I looked at him and asked so how do you figure that a coyote got that big a calf out of that pen ? There isn't any sign of it close by and it would have to of taken it out over the top . You guessed it in the snow at the back of the shed near the creek cat tracks about 4" in diameter . That's why I had to take some time to recompose myself I know what they are able to do .

 

[Reemty J]

When you shoot a lion in the tree it is usually pretty close (10'-25' ), but not always....back then I had all revolvers, now I have all autos.......just what you have at the time. A lion is a very regal animal, quite amazing to see your 1st one. In the tree females are usually pretty nervous and are more prone to jump a few times, Toms are very relaxed and they kinda ignore you like "you are beneath them" kinda uppity

 

[DSheetz]

After a few fire fights you learn to control your self until it's over then you shake like a leaf in a hurricane and about an hour latter you run out of adrenaline and crash .

 

[Reemty J]

Dsheetz, I would guess you can read sign real well, lots of practice...when we hunted lions I always carried a 1/4" metal tape measure, after a while I could tell you what sex the lion was and with in 10#'s what it will weigh, just by the track and the stride........Toms toe pads are round and you can put your thumb in them, females are more almond shaped and most you cannot put you thumb in. We are going to get in trouble, we better get back to coyotes.

 

[74honker]

Yes they are killing machines. I watch alot of nature shows lol. I can fully believe the shed deal, I've seen where bobcats would come in one to pack out a lamb or more. My wife works for a vet and has always complained about stinky cats so they all alike in many ways.

 

[DSheetz]

Reemty J , I did a lot of tracking and learned what was what by doing so that way I didn't waste a lot of time looking for something that wasn't there . I got to tracking coyote or other animals that were causing problems so I knew where they came from and went to so I could go to the best location to get them killed the fastest and stop them from killing . I also found the dens that way as well . It's amazing how much you can tell by the sign they leave , their sex how many there are and where they live or if they are feeding pups , if your looking for coyote , fox or one of the cat species . I even learned that a bear was the problem for one rancher . It was a relocated one that had been a problem in the park near the campgrounds . Two strikes and it had to be put down . I was telling this new kid that was working for The Wildlife Services how many coyote and where they were . He looked at me and said there's no way you can tell me that you just got here yesterday and nobody could know that any way . I shook my head and said ok time will tell . After a few weeks he ask me how I could know all that in just a couple of days . I told him to go ask Crag how I did it as he didn't want me to tell him any thing a couple of weeks ago . We did get to be friends and he decided that he wanted me to teach him somethings after all.

 

[DSheetz]

I was working on a pair that were killing lambs one spring . I got to tracking them and found that they were coming in from the next ranch over so I call Greg and got permission to go in on him . Black and I called the old pair in and got them taken care of .She showed that she had 13 pups . You look at the uterus and count the purple knots on it . In case you have never seen a dogs uterus it's shaped like a large Y the pups are contained inside of tubes and will leave a large knot were they are attached , that shrinks down to nothing by the end of summer . I got down to looking for the den I was walking down a draw and found it about 6 feet op on the side of a small hill . I took to wiring the pups out and noticed that they were all female pups and ended up with only 6 of them . I climbed up to the top of the hill , It was flat on top and about 30 feet wide with a small trail of pressed down grass going over to another draw . I walked along it and looked in the other draw and low and behold there was another well used den . I wired 7 male pups out of it . I had never seen pups sorted and put in separate dens by sex before or since . Nor have I taken more then 13 pups . some 10 to 12 but an average of 5 or 6 . I did take a den with 13 pups before but they were two age groups from two females .

 

[nicholasjohn]

Cats are kind of like pugs flat faced and don't have the sense of smell that a coyote does , they can hear and see any movement it seems like . I was out running traps one morning when I noticed a cave entrance and decided to check it out . It didn't go back very far and didn't look like it had been used in a long time by any people . I only had a 9 shot revolver and had used 6 shots that morning and hadn't reloaded it . As I stepped up to the entrance I heard a low murmur of a growl above me . As the hair on you neck stands on end and your skin starts to crawl you instantly recognize that it's a lion and it's not feeling very secure about you . My truck and rifle were about 100 yards out in front of me . I stood there for a few minutes considering my options . I remembered being told not to run and to make some loud noise . So I yelled and started the trip to my truck thinking at any time I was going to get jumped by it . I got back to the truck opened the door and was in it in record time . I sat there awhile just getting my composure and looking for it. I never did see it and feel very lucky not to get a closer encounter with it then I did . I now reload every round after I use it also .

Were you able to wear those shorts again, or were they a total loss like mine would have been ????

 

[74honker]

DSheetz, I think you could give a priceless education to someone willing to listen from what I've read from you. I know I would take every class and even ask for homework lol! Did you actually work for the government doing this or did you just work for hire for the ranchers and get "subcontracted" to work with them? Either way that's got to be one of the coolest jobs ever!