DMP25-06 , You and all else are welcome . I try to do the best I can for others and have like every one else made my fair share of mistakes and caused my share of wrecks by not thinking ahead . That is what I try to help others avoid doing to themselves . Your friend and his grandson will benefit from that information and learning how to properly take care of offending predators . That knowledge will help the person that needs to do the control work no matter if is them or someone else .
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Ramblings and Such From Hunting Coyote
- Thread starter DSheetz
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I was out one morning in June of 2002 locating for the chopper . I was up on top of a ridge and was just glassing the meadow below as the sheep and lambs were grazing toward me . There setting on a hill not 100 feet from the herd was a coyote just setting there like a sheep dog watching them graze as well . The chopper flew by on it's way in to the headquarters to pick up the gunner . The coyote jumped up and ran but not knowing I was there watching it , it only ran a few hundred yards and stopped . Laid down and caught it's breath . I called the chopper in and got it on the coyote . When I got down to pick up the coyote it wasn't much bigger then a big red fox . She was a two year old . Some of the guys didn't bother to look for the dens they just flew for the adults saying that the pups would die . I had killed her mate the day before and knew where the den was so went and took it . She had four pups that were about 8" high at the shoulders most of them would have lived with out her or the mate as they were already weened . The ranchers I was working for wanted to be sure that she got killed fast and knew that I had the den located so wanted to fly for her and some others that I knew where they were at . We took two more pairs that morning as well as the dens . So five adults and 19 pups that day saved a lot of lambs for fall sale .
DMP25-06
Well-Known Member
DMP25-06 , You and all else are welcome . I try to do the best I can for others and have like every one else made my fair share of mistakes and caused my share of wrecks by not thinking ahead . That is what I try to help others avoid doing to themselves . Your friend and his grandson will benefit from that information and learning how to properly take care of offending predators . That knowledge will help the person that needs to do the control work no matter if is them or someone else .
Thank You , Sir .
There is a world of difference in just killing coyote and controlling coyote . When I controlled coyote I wanted to take care of the coyote that were causing the problems so then I needed to find out where they were coming from . In that way I could get them pinpointed thus set up and kill those that were the problem and move on to the next problem coyote doing my best not to make more problems then I solved . A lot of the guys that were hired to take care of the problem coyote didn't understand that at first and would go out willy - nilly killing coyote then wonder why the lamb , fawn ect. numbers didn't go up or in some cases went down . I have seen where I killed the female and the dog got a new one to help raise the pups . That happened when I got called in after the pups were out of the den and camping in the sage brush , normally late June . So then you take the older ones and spend a lot more time trying to get the pups gathered up . This old male had been around and seen a lot and knew to lay down not moving , not to answer the siren or howls . he would lay down and just watch you . The pups would do the same . These are the ones that make your hair turn grey and get thin on top early in life . I told the ranchers about him and they told me to just do my best that I wasn't the first to take him on but that I had made progress by getting two of his females and a couple of the pups in two weeks . I spent a couple of days walking draws , sandy blow outs , trails and roads . When I got it narrowed down to a couple of rock piles in one pasture a mile from where they were killing I contacted them and set up a date for the chopper to come in . I visited the pilot and told him about what I figured would take place with them , that they would lay down and not move so I would need to spot them first before he got there . I got out there before first light and sat up just listening two short howls and two barks were heard then the pups answered , all went quiet after that . I moved in and sat up looking for any movement they were in a rock pile with plenty of large boulders to hid by . I got ahold of the chopper it was setting at the airport 10 miles away just waiting for my call with the gunner and two spotters onboard . I watched the pups and old dog laying in the rocks they looked to the south as the chopper started coming in from that direction as that way the sun coming up would help high lite the fur on the coyote . Being in contact with it all the time I brought it in on top of them had him move slow at almost a hover right on top of them . We got lucky and one of the spotters saw the old dog first two rounds of #4 buckshot and he was done three of the pups broke and ran , fatal mistake for them . Two more froze in place but the spotters saw them . Finally we had that problem solved thousands of dollars in lambs were lost as well as the cost of the chopper and peoples time that was spent trying to get an old smart well trained dog and his pups . I worked for those ranchers for over twenty five years they went from 70% lamb sales in the fall to 109 % that is what coyote control does for the ranchers makes their lives better .
I'm learning so much from all of you guys. Many things I've thought of but just didn't know what to do about it. I completely agree with the don't do more harm than good statements. Main reason I've took a step back from chasing over the winter because I knew I was at the end of my knowledge and capability and didn't want to make them any harder a target when everyone else in my area was already doing that. Many times when I've had the time to go the conditions just weren't right and I knew better than to push it, learned some of those lessons the hard way unfortunately. Of course when conditions were perfect always had too much going on and couldn't go. If anything is gonna get educated I want it to be me and not the coyotes and you all are definitely helping with that cause lol. I so look forward everyday to the classes you all are posting for me lol.
74honker , You are learning and that is the biggest reason for this post . We all learn from others mistakes as well as our own . We also learn from what we do right if it worked today will it work tomorrow what if I put this little spin on it this time . He or She did this so what happens if I use that and add this ?There are those coyote that you just have to study , learn what kind of patterns they have , we all have things that we do over and over with out thinking about it , then snipe them . You don't have to kill to hunt , you can hunt to learn , the wind may be blowing hard but you can still learn about tracking or where they are laying up waiting for the front to blow out then go there to hunt them in the future . Heck I didn't even own a gun when I was a kid and hunted all the time . I learned to track , to get close to animals with out spooking them to observe their habits , to see where and why they went where the did . I have noticed that a lot of the best hunters don't always carry a rifle when they hunt and a lot of people see more when they don't have a gun with them . If you are excited or any of the other emotions that we humans have your body odor will change and the animals will smell it . How far does the smell of a smoky camp fire carry in a gentle breeze so does your odor and it's stronger when you are excited . Ask any one that has been in combat how badly any one smells after a fire fight and all the adrenaline has been pumping through them , some peoples body odor will gag you after that . Learn to be calm out there and some times it takes just going out to look around and study the animals you want to hunt be it coyote ,deer rabbits ect. . Be at ease with your surrounding the other animals are , they have to be that's where they live and die .
Here in my part of the world there are a lot of treeless hills, draws and rolling plains . When you get to looking around you will see on top of a lot of these hills there are a pile of rocks that were placed there by humans . We call these sheep herders monuments as the Bask sheep herders would set by them to watch the flocks of sheep and stay out of the wind , rain ,snow and sun . I think that they were already there before the Bask and that the Native Americans used them to watch their areas for intruders and game animals . I have used them to my advantage when looking for coyote as well . they break up your outline so you aren't sky lined they have been there for a lot longer then me or any of the animals so the animals are used to them and you have a great view of the surrounding country . Down on one of the ranches I worked for I was setting at one looking the country over when I noticed a winter Indian camp , they had stones laid out in two rings so they could put one tepee inside of another against the wind and weather that tells you it was a winter camp . So after I was done looking I wandered down to the camp . As I looked around down the hill I saw a small pile of rocks and wandered on down there also . When I got there I saw laid out with stones 3 5 1853 and a grave . In my mind there lies an unknown solider of the period . I found these things because I was hunting coyote and was able to get to places that most can't because I was good to the ranchers and did them a good job so then they learned to trust me .
DMP25-06
Well-Known Member
I'm learning so much from all of you guys. Many things I've thought of but just didn't know what to do about it. I completely agree with the don't do more harm than good statements. Main reason I've took a step back from chasing over the winter because I knew I was at the end of my knowledge and capability and didn't want to make them any harder a target when everyone else in my area was already doing that. Many times when I've had the time to go the conditions just weren't right and I knew better than to push it, learned some of those lessons the hard way unfortunately. Of course when conditions were perfect always had too much going on and couldn't go. If anything is gonna get educated I want it to be me and not the coyotes and you all are definitely helping with that cause lol. I so look forward everyday to the classes you all are posting for me lol.
74Honker ,
You sound as though you have learned the virtue of self-restraint , as you have chosen to NOT go in , when the conditions are not favorable .
THAT takes reasoning , and self-control .
Good job .
DMP25-06
Thank you DMP25-06,74Honker ,
You sound as though you have learned the virtue of self-restraint , as you have chosen to NOT go in , when the conditions are not favorable .
THAT takes reasoning , and self-control .
Good job .
DMP25-06
I probably know what not to do more than what to do lol. It's hard to do sometimes but I don't want to be part of the problem.
DMP25-06
Well-Known Member
Here in my part of the world there are a lot of treeless hills, draws and rolling plains . When you get to looking around you will see on top of a lot of these hills there are a pile of rocks that were placed there by humans . We call these sheep herders monuments as the Bask sheep herders would set by them to watch the flocks of sheep and stay out of the wind , rain ,snow and sun . I think that they were already there before the Bask and that the Native Americans used them to watch their areas for intruders and game animals . I have used them to my advantage when looking for coyote as well . they break up your outline so you aren't sky lined they have been there for a lot longer then me or any of the animals so the animals are used to them and you have a great view of the surrounding country . Down on one of the ranches I worked for I was setting at one looking the country over when I noticed a winter Indian camp , they had stones laid out in two rings so they could put one tepee inside of another against the wind and weather that tells you it was a winter camp . So after I was done looking I wandered down to the camp . As I looked around down the hill I saw a small pile of rocks and wandered on down there also . When I got there I saw laid out with stones 3 5 1853 and a grave . In my mind there lies an unknown solider of the period . I found these things because I was hunting coyote and was able to get to places that most can't because I was good to the ranchers and did them a good job so then they learned to trust me .
DSheetz ,
After reading your posts and stories , I KNOW that you are an excellent tracker , and you are able to read and interpret sign left by animals , and humans . You obviously possess the ability to quickly glance over an area , and recognize the subtleties of changes or disturbances to the earth and vegetation that indicate that an animal or human has been there before , and then analyze that information to envision what has caused those changes .
Too many of us , that call ourselves hunters , would probably have moved through that area , too rapidly , and possibly not recognized the grave and marker stones , or the remnants of the Indian camp .
And the story of the old male coyote teaching the pups is another lesson from you to us .
Thank You for sharing .
DMP25-06
Now I need some coaching. I literally just caught one eyeballing the pasture about 200yd from the house. I was burning the garbage and watched a doe come from the brush into the meadow on high alert but not at me. It then takes off at a run and does a couple circles. The doe then does a couple stomps and there it was. That deer was chasing that coyote. Luckily I was able to get the house about 100yd to get the gun and after a few minutes it showed itself again in the tall grass. turned broadside at 150 and let the 7mm bark and stayed in his tracks. A male with some wear on his canines. The funny thing is that after the shot the doe came back out of the brush, walked over near the dead dog, stomped and snorted a couple times then trotted away. Now from what you all have said, if this guy has a mate, 1) how far do you think he came to get to here from the den, and 2) what do I do next to get the rest of them?
What does his tail look like ? I have seen them travel a 12 mile round trip to kill lambs , but normally they have a smaller circuit of a mile or so . I have seen a doe that was protecting it's fawn kick and kill an adult coyote I also watched a small heard of mule deer corner a coyote in a patch of brush and stomp the heck out of it before it could get away . If his canines were worn much he was older then 4 or 5 years old . My son and I called and shot one that didn't have a tooth in his mouth he was pretty skinny the biologist thought he was maybe 10 or 12 years old . You can set and listen in the morning to see if you hear one trying to locate him . A good cup of coffee or two in your thermos and a warm jacket to wear while setting in your chair on your deck around sun raise may pay dividends for you at this time . If you don't hear the mate calling him go out a few hundred yards after sun raise get a good comfortable set and do two short howls then two barks listen a while and do it again talking then listening . You got the male so do deeper howls and barks . after doing that if you don't get a reply just set and watch she will be watching you . Wait several minutes 10 - 15 then if you have a group howl on an e-call play it on loud volume for a few seconds to 30 seconds you don't want to miss them howling while you can't hear them over your call . give them time to answer 10 - 15 minutes again . If this doesn't work spend a morning or two just listening for them to talk on their own . If you need to wait for the weekend to look for the den hit the trails and any creeks looking for tracks listen every morning that you can for them .
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74honker , what we know is that you killed an older male coyote , his teeth show some ware . What we don't know for sure is what direction did he come from , is he part of a pair that has pups . So we look for clues to answer those questions . Does his fur tell us anything , we know that pups will chew on his tail while he is puppy setting . I'm not sure when the pups are born in your part of the world so they may or may not be doing a group howl in the mornings by now . We know that if he is part of a pair that the female will try to locate him so then we just listen to see if we can hear her or the pups so we can then know what direction to start looking . If that fails we then try to get the female to talk or the pups to talking . Just ask if they want to talk using two short howls and two quick barks listen then repeat do that a few times .That is a get together sound, round up the spouse and kids where are you and I'm coming home now . I don't know if you have an e-caller like a fox pro if you do they have group howls , puppy squeaks or puppy in distress , they even have a recorded siren . If you are too close to the den they won't answer all the time . but a lot of the times the pups will talk to the puppy in distress or the group howls if you turn it up loud , one of the few times that I will start out with a loud volume . One of the things that happen is some people over use these tools and burn the coyote out on them so they stop responding to them . The pups are more likely to talk to you latter in the morning then the female as they haven't learned to be cautious yet . If you get pretty close to the den the pups will run for the den and safety and you can hear them doing that . Latter in the morning the pups will be out of the hole sunning themselves so you can see them playing on the hole , along a cut bank ect. near the den . You may even hear them growling and barking as they play fight with each other .
Here where I live we have a colder spring . The older females tend to have pups earlier and the young have them latter in the year . I have seen pups born from early April to early June . I've heard the pups doing group howls as early as May 9th .
