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Question for fordy

fordy said:
Gday rich
No imposing

A little more information is needed first before i can go through my notes on those calibers & pills I've used

So could I please have the following

The critter /s you are targeting & the maximum range you'll shoot a critter too & the most likely range /s the critter will be shot @

Cheers
Click to expand...

The 7mm would be for caribou and smaller up to 600 yards.
The .338 Edge Imp would be for African plains game and Moose and smaller up to 600 yards.
 
Gda rich
On what I've used for you critter lists & ranges

For the 28 nosler the 131hh would be my choice
Basically @ I'd assume a easy 3600 MV should be possible giving you around a 2900 impact @ 300 yards & around 2250 impact @ 600 yards


For the 338 edge I'd go a 9 twist but 8.5 to 9.3 would be the range of twist I'd look @ being in the range of for the 260 hh

I'd assume 2900 MV would be obtainable in the 260hh & edge combo giving you 2500 impact @300 yards & 2100 impact @ 600 yards

Hope that helps
Cheers
 
Gday rich

I forgot to add that I personally wouldn't shoot the hammer hp lines & more so the hh& ah without adding beeswax or equivalent to the HP cavity & this is on the vast majority of hp pills ( regardless of brand ) that I used this method on with a couple of exceptions but really they are more a design function & not a " traditional " hp yes even some c&c I'd add beeswax or equivalent too

It's been controversial for some but the transition zone on the pill with this beeswax added became more consistent & consistency across various resistances & ultimately that has proven it gives more consistent results

I like consistency in wounds across various resistances or as close as possible to get it
But ea to one's own

Cheers
 
Thanks, fordy, for the information and suggestions. I hope my new question does not annoy you.

What would you think about the 223 HH grain .338 to reduce recoil? Do you think it would be close in performance to the 260 HH?

Thanks in advance.
 
central iowa couple said:
Forty, what's the purpose of the beeswax. I love the hammer bullets.
Click to expand...
Gday central Iowa couple
The purpose of the beeswax is to give consistency in the transition zone ( which is when the pill impacts the critter till it expands & sheds the petals ) now on the vast majority of cases you will not be concerned with the lack of fluid in the hp as the critter will have enough but it will be once it occurs to you so it's as I call it a bingo raffle

Now the beeswax or other substances like food grade grease , food grade silicone, even crisco was thrown around by some mates & a couple other things has shown that it is producing results that was back to the original hammers on preformance levels & somewhat even improved on those

I tested this theory by a kinda mistake as I was getting myself & other people's results of the hammers not working to the same standards of what they & I had previously seen
& even the hammerboys were stuck in a rut of thinking it was differences in alloys as i & others were also starting to question

Alloy still important but definitely not as important as I once thought

I looked back on timelines of things occurring & the one that stood out was when the hammerboys started to clean the hp of oil as it suited weatherby & a few other clients better as no residue no issues for them

Now a group of us initially worked through it on the information that the pills would be cleared of oil & some testing occurred but what we all failed to do was understand what these clear of oil tips we're doing on certain impacts ( dry impacts as I now call them ) as we tested in milk jugs or other media & on the whole they gave the fluid needed to get the pill to work & we failed to delve deeper

But bit by bit the results we're coming in on what just happened & a mate over here was the first one I really got into it of looking past alloy
With a humble 22lr some 30 years ago showed me the way of I needed to clear my head & our testing began

That 22lr round was smothered in wax & caused me cycling issues so I cleaned some of the new 10000 batch up & while it fixed the cycling issues it was noted this new batch wasn't killing as efficiently as the previous batch's & a mate @ the time had no issues with non cleaned bullets & took us to understand how the wax on these humble 22 bullets made so much difference
& that was the trigger point for me going hmmm I wonder so testing commenced & not only with hammers I did it on a notorious pill for not expanding well in the form of the Sierra hpbt matchking & the results were straight away wow

Followed up with a few other brands & same results it improved the terminal effectiveness of those hp pills

Please don't try a oil in a hht or AHT as that was not good @ all & highly recommend not doing that @all

Now I'm not a bug hole guy so for true accuracy I can't comment on that but from my hack groups I couldn't tell any difference if I shot with or without wax or oil

So going hunting I'd just do a few up but wouldn't bother for target

The process of wax is a little bit time consuming & why other substances were talked about but for me I'd not hunt without one of those substances in the hp & even hammer sells a hammer trail kit to inject oil in the hp would be my minimum standard I'd use but I'd just get a syringe & fine needle & fill it with the substance like oil or crisco or like

Some won't bother which is cool & ea to their own but for one moment don't think the tips are the better option as depending on the pill itself & the application it's used in better results are seen with the other lines like the hh, ah ,sh ,LH

Hope that explains why the beeswax or whatever one chooses to do or not is upto the individual but it helps stop your number being called out earlier in the bingo raffle that I guarantee

I'm sorry I can't post videos as I'd show how I did the wax & if anyone is interested I'll try to break down in picture's & explain 🤞just let me know & I'll get to it

No proof read sorry
Cheers
 
fordy said:
Gday central Iowa couple
The purpose of the beeswax is to give consistency in the transition zone ( which is when the pill impacts the critter till it expands & sheds the petals ) now on the vast majority of cases you will not be concerned with the lack of fluid in the hp as the critter will have enough but it will be once it occurs to you so it's as I call it a bingo raffle

Now the beeswax or other substances like food grade grease , food grade silicone, even crisco was thrown around by some mates & a couple other things has shown that it is producing results that was back to the original hammers on preformance levels & somewhat even improved on those

I tested this theory by a kinda mistake as I was getting myself & other people's results of the hammers not working to the same standards of what they & I had previously seen
& even the hammerboys were stuck in a rut of thinking it was differences in alloys as i & others were also starting to question

Alloy still important but definitely not as important as I once thought

I looked back on timelines of things occurring & the one that stood out was when the hammerboys started to clean the hp of oil as it suited weatherby & a few other clients better as no residue no issues for them

Now a group of us initially worked through it on the information that the pills would be cleared of oil & some testing occurred but what we all failed to do was understand what these clear of oil tips we're doing on certain impacts ( dry impacts as I now call them ) as we tested in milk jugs or other media & on the whole they gave the fluid needed to get the pill to work & we failed to delve deeper

But bit by bit the results we're coming in on what just happened & a mate over here was the first one I really got into it of looking past alloy
With a humble 22lr some 30 years ago showed me the way of I needed to clear my head & our testing began

That 22lr round was smothered in wax & caused me cycling issues so I cleaned some of the new 10000 batch up & while it fixed the cycling issues it was noted this new batch wasn't killing as efficiently as the previous batch's & a mate @ the time had no issues with non cleaned bullets & took us to understand how the wax on these humble 22 bullets made so much difference
& that was the trigger point for me going hmmm I wonder so testing commenced & not only with hammers I did it on a notorious pill for not expanding well in the form of the Sierra hpbt matchking & the results were straight away wow

Followed up with a few other brands & same results it improved the terminal effectiveness of those hp pills

Please don't try a oil in a hht or AHT as that was not good @ all & highly recommend not doing that @all

Now I'm not a bug hole guy so for true accuracy I can't comment on that but from my hack groups I couldn't tell any difference if I shot with or without wax or oil

So going hunting I'd just do a few up but wouldn't bother for target

The process of wax is a little bit time consuming & why other substances were talked about but for me I'd not hunt without one of those substances in the hp & even hammer sells a hammer trail kit to inject oil in the hp would be my minimum standard I'd use but I'd just get a syringe & fine needle & fill it with the substance like oil or crisco or like

Some won't bother which is cool & ea to their own but for one moment don't think the tips are the better option as depending on the pill itself & the application it's used in better results are seen with the other lines like the hh, ah ,sh ,LH

Hope that explains why the beeswax or whatever one chooses to do or not is upto the individual but it helps stop your number being called out earlier in the bingo raffle that I guarantee

I'm sorry I can't post videos as I'd show how I did the wax & if anyone is interested I'll try to break down in picture's & explain 🤞just let me know & I'll get to it

No proof read sorry
Cheers
Click to expand...
Send the videos to me and I'll see if I can put them up
 
RichCoyle said:
Thanks, fordy, for the information and suggestions. I hope my new question does not annoy you.

What would you think about the 223 HH grain .338 to reduce recoil? Do you think it would be close in performance to the 260 HH?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Gday rich
Sorry for derail above by me

Now to your question on the 223 hh as a good option

Yes I get why the lighter pills are mentioned & on the whole a very good way to go as it usually works better for the vast majority of people & critters they are pursuing but to get this these lighter pills need to be balanced & even the 175hh would be a great way to go if that pill was balanced but we have what we have &
Where you have to be careful is that 223 pill will most definitely kill & kill well it will be found wanting that bit more on potentially eland & even the likes of wilderbeast etc
I'll grab a few pictures on these & angles that occur in some cases which I like to cover but also reality in Africa ( south more applicable) is the vast majority of the places there is not going to be a lost critter as they are great trackers & the vast majority are fenced & it usually comes out ok

So use the 223 on the vast majority of critters but it doesn't cover them as well as the 260hh but you've probably honed in on one of the better pills in the lightweight/ midweight range & the 225 sh is not bad either just haven't done sums on if it fits to that range or not sorry

On moose & the 223 they are just big from my limited experience & not that hard to kill so it'll work no worries but stay away from hard quarter away especially on its left side

Ask away if I'm not clear
Cheers
 

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