Proven load now resulting in clickers?

[skipglo]

Slow ,I am . 50 years of doing this But Not sure what a "clicker" is or "web expansion"
Thank you for helping.

I don't feel so bad now having asked the same question but with waaaaay less time reloading than you....it was only my 49th year in May! Web expansion is easier....it's when you're shooting in the Old Barn and 30 spiders go flying thru the air...that's when the web expands 30 ft from the muzzle blast and snaps back! Right?

 

[spin-one]

I have new Peterson brass arriving today. Hope to test it soon but it'll be a while before I get into 3-4 firings. Going to also have a die made by Whidden and am waiting for JGS tooling to call me about the chamber reamer.

When I first started having issues I contact Widden dies. They have been great to work with. They had me try their in stock die because they said that their standard dies are a tad smaller than most other dies on the market and if it didn't correct the problem they would give me a full refund. Needless to say it didn't correct the problem. With the return of their die I also sent them three pieces of brass with the clicker issues. From here they will measure my brass and make a custom die that will correct my brass size issue

 

[spin-one]

When I first started having issues I contact Widden dies. They have been great to work with. They had me try their in stock die because they said that their standard dies are a tad smaller than most other dies on the market and if it didn't correct the problem they would give me a full refund. Needless to say it didn't correct the problem. With the return of their die I also sent them three pieces of brass with the clicker issues. From here they will measure my brass and make a custom die that will correct my brass size issue

 

[JAYgs8163]

How about just loading three shells and fire them three to four times! Quicker and would only ruin 3 casings if the problem is the same!

Will eventually but I'm about 25 minutes each way from the range.

 

[spin-one]

 

[JAYgs8163]

When I first started having issues I contact Widden dies. They have been great to work with. They had me try their in stock die because they said that their standard dies are a tad smaller than most other dies on the market and if it didn't correct the problem they would give me a full refund. Needless to say it didn't correct the problem. With the return of their die I also sent them three pieces of brass with the clicker issues. From here they will measure my brass and make a custom die that will correct my brass size issue

Hopefully that's the case. I know a few that had the custom die made but still have the issue with ADG brass and that brass is real tough at the Web, and as it gets work hardened it just won't resize far enough.

 

[vancewalker007]

Actually this is where the problem with the chamber/brass design exists. SAAMI brass spec is .532 at the web and chamber spec is .533. That's just not enough space from what I've been told for proper case expansion. I've been told that .003-.005 is required which when the brass is new seems to be fine. My case sizes down to .531 using my Redding dies. Alex Wheeler has discussed this in length and has actually designed a modified chamber reamer. New ADG and Hornady Brass is .528 at the web. Some have tried custom dies with good success but mostly only on Hornady brass. I'm probably going to open my chamber up to .535 which is what I believe Alex specs his reamer to. This should allow everything to function as it should and also allow for further load development. My clickers started on my 4th and 5th reloading of ADG. Anyways…. glad some are not experiencing the issue. How many reloads on your brass and what brass are you running Vance?

I am using Hornady brass, so what I did may not work with the thicker ADG brass. I am using the Hornady match grade die set. I get 7-9 reloads before primer pockets start randomly going. I usually anneal after every use so my necks last and are nice and consistent.

I know about the close chamber case size issue, this is why I tried this to save some brass. I was just trying something out the normal .002 bump dogma and it worked out for my rifle. My clickers and tight closing brass has completely gone away. It took a a lot of moving the die up and down until I hit the sweet spot. Luckily I had lots of fired brass to play with. I was paying careful attention to the .002 web area and the shoulder to base length distance using the 420 insert.

Another note on something I noticed on the Hornady brass was any piece that had been over pressured ie. caught an ejector mark for example, the web area just would not size down below about 0.533, so those got tossed.

For anyone reading this that has not measured the head space length (base to shoulder center) you need to punch out the primer before measuring as primers can back out some on firing and this will skew measurements. Using a small punch and a shell holder to hold the case works pretty good if you don't have a decapper die.

 

[Vettepilot]

I don't understand about opening up the back of the chamber. If you're getting CHE, isn't the brass going to just expand out to the new, opened dimension and cause clicks again? Or is the idea that the existing die used will size it down below the new, opened up dimension, whereas it would not with the tighter chamber?

Or is the idea that once the brass expands out to the newer, opened up dimension, it will be worn out and time to trash?

I've not had much luck resizing case heads much at all. I once modified a 30.06 die and bumped the shoulder back a ridiculous .014", and still the lower case was oversize. (This was trying to save some military match brass that must have been fired in a huge chamber...)

Vettepilot

 

[Rardoin]

Or is the idea that the existing die used will size it down below the new, opened up dimension, whereas it would not with the tighter chamber?

Or is the idea that once the brass expands out to the newer, opened up dimension, it will be worn out and time to trash?

Yes, and possibly. Yes on your first idea; the existing die will be able to bring the brass down to a dimension that will provide adequate clearance for extraction after firing. However, if the existing die sizes the brass back enough to permit chambering with slight clearance in the problem area and you fire it in that chamber several times, the brass can and usually will work harden in that expanded state and a small base die will not salvage it. Opening the chamber up a bit will allow further use. Not a big deal on a hunting rifle that has a barrel that will last a decade or much more. If you are shooting varmint or competition where a barrel lasts less than a year then and a new one is chambered it would be best to have either the chamber reamer designed with a larger base or the sizing reamer with a smaller base to avoid the issue and not have to 'polish out' each barrel.

 

[skipglo]

Will eventually but I'm about 25 minutes each way from the range.

That makes a difference...but heck...it's only a hour....or wait till after dark...
Go to the neighbors back yard....fire a shot...and jump back over the fence.... make sure you are still on your side and jump up and holler Bill was that you!

 

[GLTaylor]

View attachment 290164

I love your photo! Thanks!

 

[spin-one]

I love your photo! Thanks!

Ya the picture says it all when things aren't working out

 

[JAYgs8163]

I don't understand about opening up the back of the chamber. If you're getting CHE, isn't the brass going to just expand out to the new, opened dimension and cause clicks again? Or is the idea that the existing die used will size it down below the new, opened up dimension, whereas it would not with the tighter chamber?

Or is the idea that once the brass expands out to the newer, opened up dimension, it will be worn out and time to trash?

I've not had much luck resizing case heads much at all. I once modified a 30.06 die and bumped the shoulder back a ridiculous .014", and still the lower case was oversize. (This was trying to save some military match brass that must have been fired in a huge chamber...)

Vettepilot

My existing die will resize enough is the thought process. We're talking about .004 more at the web area. It's been done by a number of people with positive results. My finish reamer will be done in October. There's a entire thread on here, about 20 pages worth, discussing the clickers on PRC chambers. Alex Wheeler designed the new reamer so I'm very confident of what the results will be.

 

[Vettepilot]

QUOTE:
"That makes a difference...but heck...it's only a hour....or wait till after dark...
Go to the neighbors back yard....fire a shot...and jump back over the fence.... make sure you are still on your side and jump up and holler Bill was that you!"

Ha! I like how you think. And this is something I might have pulled when I was younger. When you get older, you get much more anxious about getting busted...

;~(

Vettepilot