Prototype Muzzle break

[Outlaw6.0]

I always wondered what a side discharge break would do to a windshield on an aggressive caliber, guess I will pass on trying to find that one out.
I know the circular breaks do not function well from prone, only took me one time to figure that one out in the dirt

I have been on site when a 300RUM with a break shot across a pickup tailgate broke the filament in the tail light of the vehicle....


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[RTK]

I learned another thing about breaks, had one made for me that used top and side only, that way prone and hood positions were good. It was on a hot varmiter I had with a 20 something plus scope on and I didn't want to mis the red mist from my shots. It actually turned out worse because of the holes in the top with none on the bottom, it pushed the barrel down severely. Had to tig most of the top holes.
Sorry about hijacking the thread.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Anything cloth near a muzzle break will be shredded, that goes for skin too.
I shoot over the hood of my truck with a vias type break and put a towel down to keep the blast from burning and pitting the paint, if you got withing 6 inches of the towel it would rip big holes in it. A lotta hot gasses coming out of those things.

Putting a wet sock over the muzzle on that weapons system is common practice to reduce your signature.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

When I do the night/dark test it may answer your questions.

I have/am considering using a set screw with belleville washers for those that don't have a
Gunsmith handy, But I prefer the shoulder to shoulder make up and timed (I think it looks better).

If you look at the video there is little or no disturbance under the break (Fresh cut grass with
lots of clippings with the prototype but the factory brake will cover you up.

Index marks are easy to add after the brake is installed.

J E CUSTOM

I agree it does look better by a lot, and I am looking at it from a different context I suppose. I can not wait to see that video, I have a little bit of time behind the M107 and I am familiar with the recoil impulse and the way you describe the factory brake more or less enveloping the shooter.

When I looked at the video all I could think was man that could cut down a shooter signature. I asked about the whiteness marks and set screws as in my mind, I see a few potential clients for this brake wanting the ability for it remove it and re install it at will in a field environment.

Who's toy is that anyhow?

 

[RTK]

Putting a wet sock over the muzzle on that weapons system is common practice to reduce your signature.

Wouldn't that blow water and sock all over the place??? I could not see a hunting or target shooting use if so..

 

[J E Custom]

I learned another thing about breaks, had one made for me that used top and side only, that way prone and hood positions were good. It was on a hot varmiter I had with a 20 something plus scope on and I didn't want to mis the red mist from my shots. It actually turned out worse because of the holes in the top with none on the bottom, it pushed the barrel down severely. Had to tig most of the top holes.
Sorry about hijacking the thread.

No problem. I'm glad to see some interest in the brake. I have witnessed the same phenomenon
on some breaks that had top vents that were two large and they applied to much down force.

Some top venting may be nessary on a rifle that has a tendency to rise up when fired due to
the amount of drop in the stock but it should be added only after calculating how much is
needed and no more.

The design of my brake all but eliminated muzzle rise and the target stayed in view all the time
while firing it.

Once I get the patent for it going I can divulge more of the subtle design thinking that worked so well
to do some of the other things that plague most muzzle breaks. As I said earlier we have a lot of
good muzzle breaks available that do an excellent job of reducing recoil so topping these was not the
goal of this prototype.Eliminating some of the other traits was the main reason for thinking outside of
the box.

I was also considering the guys/gals in the military that have to deal with the other issues that
muzzle brakes present + our nations enemies. so that is where the 50 BMG came into it.

I will try to respond to all post as best as I can but in a few days deer season starts and I will
be unavailable for a few days

Thanks

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

I agree it does look better by a lot, and I am looking at it from a different context I suppose. I can not wait to see that video, I have a little bit of time behind the M107 and I am familiar with the recoil impulse and the way you describe the factory brake more or less enveloping the shooter.

When I looked at the video all I could think was man that could cut down a shooter signature. I asked about the whiteness marks and set screws as in my mind, I see a few potential clients for this brake wanting the ability for it remove it and re install it at will in a field environment.

Who's toy is that anyhow?

I guess you mean the rifle. It's mine and it is realy fun with my brake on it.

For the brakes that will be removable in the field I will probably use set screws and a tool
to remove it if it is made up and timed (So an alignment mark would be nessary or at least
useful).

Thanks for you input, And thanks for your service.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Hired Gun]

JE,
I apreciate the effort in advancing muzzle brake design but am concerned about getting a patent on it. There are quite a few patented muzzle brakes and very few that ever made a dime from the design. Reason is all someone has to do is change one aspect by the slightest amount and they are free to copy and market your design all they want. I'm afraid you are going to be out a bunch of money that may not be recoverable.

Darrell Holland doesn't patent his brakes and if anyone ever should have it is him. Problem is it wouldn't have done any good. He has a guy named Ross who freely admits he copied Darrell's brake. He changed it slightly and sells it all over the net for $40 each. He has sold thousands of them. Thanks Darrell.

Darrell designed a dual draft recoil lug. That thing is copied and sold everywhere as who ever wants to call it there own.

 

[J E Custom]

How well would you think this brake would tame a 7-7.5 lb 300 RUM shooting 180 grain bullets? 30-06 level?

I personally think if it will make the .50 bmg tame, it will do the same for any rifle.

I still do a lot of hunting When not building rifles or dreaming up something (I am retired and
sometime have more projects than time).And I am looking forward to testing it on one of my
hunting rifles, especally out of a blind. If it does as good scaled down about getting rid of the pressure wave it should make hunting a lot more pleasant.

Some of the better brakes do a good job of reducing the recoil to around 50% i see no reason
this brake wont do the same.

Your 300 RUM should have a recoil value of around 35 ft/lbs and recoil velocity of 17 to 18 ft/sec.

The 30/06 depending on rifle weight is around 24 to 26 ft/lbs and a recoil velocity of 12 to 14 ft/sec.

So a good brake should reduce it by 50% making it less that a 30/06 and less than 20 ft/lbs
of recoil energy.

I used one of Kirbys brakes on a 300 rum and it has less recoil than a 308 of comparably weight


J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

JE,
I apreciate the effort in advancing muzzle brake design but am concerned about getting a patent on it. There are quite a few patented muzzle brakes and very few that ever made a dime from the design. Reason is all someone has to do is change one aspect by the slightest amount and they are free to copy and market your design all they want. I'm afraid you are going to be out a bunch of money that may not be recoverable.

Darrell Holland doesn't patent his brakes and if anyone ever should have it is him. Problem is it wouldn't have done any good. He has a guy named Ross who freely admits he copied Darrell's brake. He changed it slightly and sells it all over the net for $40 each. He has sold thousands of them. Thanks Darrell.

Darrell designed a dual draft recoil lug. That thing is copied and sold everywhere as who ever wants to call it there own.

I hear you !!!

I have had 3 other patents stolen so I know the risk. If someone wants to steal the design there is
not much I can do about it. the one thing that I can tell you for sure it cannot be made for $40.00
bucks much less sold for that, because it takes some expensive machinery (A 5 axis CNC for
example)to build it. and if you tried to build one on a Lathe and milling machine it would cost
a $1,000.00 or more.

But I will know that I helped others to enjoy shooting more and that's whats important to me.

And I use a lot of the Holland breaks and They are on my top 5 list of breaks to use.

Thanks

J E CUSTOM

 

[bruce_ventura]

I'm intrigued by your brake concept. Speaking from experience (over 25 US patents), I can offer some advice on patenting your invention. It sounds like you already have some experience with patents, so you may already know this.

First, if you're not willing to enforce the patent by paying a lawyer to go after every person who infringes, your patent will be worthless.

Second, if a large company (like Barrett) infringes, they will ignore the letters from your lawyer because they will assume an individual inventor does not have the $500,000 it takes to mount a credible legal battle. Individuals and small companies caught infringing will tend to cave in, though. Nevertheless, it will cost you in legal fees to make them stop infringing, or agree to pay you royalties.

Third, don't underestimate someone's ability to copy your work. For example, you may think that having a 5-axis CNC machine is a big impediment. it's not. There are at least 10 of them within 20 miles of my home.

Fourth, expect to invest at least $5,000-$10,000 on a patent that will stand up to real scrutiny. If you don't plan on making at least ten times that in profit on the invention, it's probably not worth the investment in a patent.

Fifth, before you invest any money in a patent, spend a day or two searching for prior art in the US patent database. You may find little relevant prior art or a lot. Getting around the obviousness rejection with the patent examiner is the biggest challenge. You need to be familiar with the prior art before you start to write claims. Don't assume your patent lawyer will do this search.

Sixth, if you're unsure about the return on investment, file a provisional patent application. It is cheap and easy, and will establish a priority date for your patent application, as long as you follow up within a year.

Finally, a trademark is a lot easier and cheaper to get than a patent, and may give you enough competitive advantage. Think about a cool name for your product and file for the trademark. When your product becomes well established, your registered trademark will help you maintain market leadership in the face of copycat products.

Good luck.

 

[J E Custom]

I'm intrigued by your brake concept. Speaking from experience (over 25 US patents), I can offer some advice on patenting your invention. It sounds like you already have some experience with patents, so you may already know this.

First, if you're not willing to enforce the patent by paying a lawyer to go after every person who infringes, your patent will be worthless.

Second, if a large company (like Barrett) infringes, they will ignore the letters from your lawyer because they will assume an individual inventor does not have the $500,000 it takes to mount a credible legal battle. Individuals and small companies caught infringing will tend to cave in, though. Nevertheless, it will cost you in legal fees to make them stop infringing, or agree to pay you royalties.

Third, don't underestimate someone's ability to copy your work. For example, you may think that having a 5-axis CNC machine is a big impediment. it's not. There are at least 10 of them within 20 miles of my home.

Fourth, expect to invest at least $5,000-$10,000 on a patent that will stand up to real scrutiny. If you don't plan on making at least ten times that in profit on the invention, it's probably not worth the investment in a patent.

Fifth, before you invest any money in a patent, spend a day or two searching for prior art in the US patent database. You may find little relevant prior art or a lot. Getting around the obviousness rejection with the patent examiner is the biggest challenge. You need to be familiar with the prior art before you start to write claims. Don't assume your patent lawyer will do this search.

Sixth, if you're unsure about the return on investment, file a provisional patent application. It is cheap and easy, and will establish a priority date for your patent application, as long as you follow up within a year.

Finally, a trademark is a lot easier and cheaper to get than a patent, and may give you enough competitive advantage. Think about a cool name for your product and file for the trademark. When your product becomes well established, your registered trademark will help you maintain market leadership in the face of copycat products.

Good luck.

Thanks Bruce.

I can allways count on some good advice from the members of this web site and
your trademark idea is a good one.

I have already picked a name for it and thought ''Assassin" would be a good name
for it based on it's performance.

I have looked at other patents in muzzle brakes and found nothing like it or even close
so based on that I decided to proceed.


Thanks again

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

Up date.

I finally received some small versions of this brake that will work on everything from .224 to .458 bullet diameters.(Must be bored to correct dia. for caliber to be used). Machining is very complex
and we had to use a 9 axis CNC to keep the price competitive.

I will post another video of the test using the small version soon.

I have some of the 50 bmg brakes (With set screws to index).

I am also going to open a Web page soon for these brakes.

More information to come.

Thanks for all the comments

J E CUSTOM

 

[FEENIX]

Cool, looking forward to it ... thanks for the update!