Powder Pressure differences between Nickel Plated Brass vs Normal Brass

[LVJ76]

The comment regarding losing warranty on dies is incorrect as far as Redding is concerned. I sent an email in as I had never heard this before. I just got back a reply from Redding and they said:

There is no truth to that. The dies are designed for cases plated or otherwise. Plated cases are hard on case trimmers unless they are carbide as the nickel is much much harder to trim than brass but other than that all other equipment will work the same.


Don Parker
[email protected]

Additionally, my nickel plated WW brass is beginning to show some nickel wearing off, but thats after 11 or more reloads. Additionally I fully believe the nickel plating is getting thinner due to the fact I clen all my brass with a liquid process using brass pins. I have not seen nor experienced any issue regarding loading nickel plated WW or Federal brass in my 12 years of dealing with it. I have been reloading since 1979

Thanks again Tex.

My dad used nickel plated for the 7mm-08 and 308 when we shot Silhouette and didn't have issues with them, and I know it does wear off after a while.

I'll just use one die for normal brass and another for the nickel just in case.

Thanks everyone for all your input

 

[TexSavage]

By the way, I do not like to see false information put out. It is misleading and can place unfair bias against a company's product that can cause ill will, rumors, and loss of revenue. So, since the comment regarding nickel plated brass and reloading dies was something new to me, I started checking. I have contacted Redding, which has already responded, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, and Lee Precision. This is from Lee Precision:

That is incorrect. You are able to use any type of casings in the dies that you would like (brass, steel, nickel).
We only recommend removing the rough edge or burr around the inside of the case mouth before resizing your cases. The rough edges or burrs will score the expander plug severely if this burr is not removed. Our Chamfer tool (catalog #90109) works well for removing this.

Thank You,

Laine
Customer Service

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027
phone: 262-673-3075
fax: 262-673-9273

 

[wv270wsm]

LV, do not, I repeat do not reload nickeled rifle brass it voids the warranty of your dies. the nickeling wears off in the sizing die, collects and starts making your brass look like you have grooves broached in the outside. take it from a man that used to reload nickeled brass (270 win, 30-06, 30-30, and 17 rem) I have had to replace every one of those sizing dies at my expense because the die MFR's will not warranty if you put nickeled brass through their products. only straight wall cases can be safely resized in carbide or titanium nitrite resizing dies.
later tatters.

The only set of dies I've ever hurt was because of nickel plated Winchester 243 cases. Scratched the crap out of them sent back to rcbs. I did not know they would void the warranty and was so informed by them . With that being said they ended up replacing for me any how

 

[TexSavage]

In my experience, the only time I have had dies scratch cases is when I failed to keep my dies clean. Or contaminate my lube pad, or failed to clean my brass with a simple wipe down at a minimum. Always my fault.

 

[LVJ76]

I talked to my brother earlier and one of the 7mm-08 neck sizing dies we have is almost 30 years old and it has gone through several hundreds of winchester nickel plated brass that we shot till we couldn't use it no more, I had forgotten about that.

So no problem there and I clean my dies regularly so no worries now.

Thanks gain guys and Tex I appreciate you looking in to the die issue.

 

[crkckr]

First there is big difference between wearing nickle plating and it chipping or flaking off. Wearing the suff off causes no problems but flakes coming off may. I've been using nickle plated brass for many years (whenever possible) as I like the way it processes. It usually ejects easier, too.

However! I do not, and do not recommend that anyone use nickle plated rifle brass for top end, max pressure loads. While the internal ballistics (pressure) will be the same between a brass & nickle plated case, the bolt thrust on a nickle plated case will be higher, since the plated case simply cannot hold on to the chamber walls like brass cased rounds. Don't ask me what the difference is, I simply don't remember except that it's a significant number.

I would guess that on the average rifles life span it won't make any noticeable difference in wear but if you shoot a lot of max pressure loads, it could have some effect on the bolt lugs. I've never seen anything like that on any of my own firearms but then I don't generally use nickle cases for "hot" rifle loads. Pistol loads are a whole nuther story!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[aushunter1]

Case wall thickness??
Less capacity than regular brass??

Just throwing the question out there.

 

[TexSavage]

First there is big difference between wearing nickle plating and it chipping or flaking off. Wearing the suff off causes no problems but flakes coming off may. I've been using nickle plated brass for many years (whenever possible) as I like the way it processes. It usually ejects easier, too.

However! I do not, and do not recommend that anyone use nickle plated rifle brass for top end, max pressure loads. While the internal ballistics (pressure) will be the same between a brass & nickle plated case, the bolt thrust on a nickle plated case will be higher, since the plated case simply cannot hold on to the chamber walls like brass cased rounds. Don't ask me what the difference is, I simply don't remember except that it's a significant number.

I would guess that on the average rifles life span it won't make any noticeable difference in wear but if you shoot a lot of max pressure loads, it could have some effect on the bolt lugs. I've never seen anything like that on any of my own firearms but then I don't generally use nickle cases for "hot" rifle loads. Pistol loads are a whole nuther story!
Cheers,
crkckr

So how would you tell if you were having said bolt lug issue and what would be the signs one might look for that might show this type of reaction within your rifle?

 

[memtb]

We've used Federal nickel plated brass in my wife's .338 WM for about 20 years. Granted, we don't do a lot of reloading for it but....we haven't detected any "flaking" or scratching of the dies. While I don't have a direct comparison between "plated" vs "non-plated" with her particular load.....there "does not" appear to be a pressure increase with the plated brass. Our loads exceed the "book" recommendations, yet appear to be "safe" in her rifle. As with any rifle, in any given cartridge, each can exhibit different load capacities before reaching/exceeding maximum "safe" pressures!

IMO, with absolutely "zero" scientific verification....."plated" brass actually may "handle" increased pressures (primer pocket expansion/ excessive case expansion) before showing pressure signs, better than conventional brass due to the nickel being a bit "tougher" (less malleable) than brass. Granted, this is probably insignificant in the "big" picture!

At the very least, it's easier to recover your brass in the field! memtb

 

[LVJ76]

A few years ago I developed a load for the 139gr SST on my 7mm-08 that groups sub half MOA, its with 41.0 gr of IMR-4064 that does not show any pressure signs on normal brass

A year later and before I read somewhere that nickel plated brass would show pressure signs with less powder, I did this same load on some once fired Winchester nickel placed brass and has not showed signs of pressure either.

I was more concerned when trying out on my 7 Rem Mag, trying to avoid starting the load development all over again and just trying the loads I currently have, do you guys think stating at a grain and a half below my current load would be safe enough? Thoughts?

 

[LVJ76]

First there is big difference between wearing nickle plating and it chipping or flaking off. Wearing the suff off causes no problems but flakes coming off may. I've been using nickle plated brass for many years (whenever possible) as I like the way it processes. It usually ejects easier, too.

However! I do not, and do not recommend that anyone use nickle plated rifle brass for top end, max pressure loads. While the internal ballistics (pressure) will be the same between a brass & nickle plated case, the bolt thrust on a nickle plated case will be higher, since the plated case simply cannot hold on to the chamber walls like brass cased rounds. Don't ask me what the difference is, I simply don't remember except that it's a significant number.

I would guess that on the average rifles life span it won't make any noticeable difference in wear but if you shoot a lot of max pressure loads, it could have some effect on the bolt lugs. I've never seen anything like that on any of my own firearms but then I don't generally use nickle cases for "hot" rifle loads. Pistol loads are a whole nuther story!
Cheers,
crkckr

I've seen the nickel wear off but never flake off. I really don't run many max loads, when hunting I don't shot past 500m so I don't really need my bullets screaming through the air, I focus more on precision than speed.

That said I would not worry much about the bolt lugs.

Thanks for the info ckrckr, appreciate it

 

[LVJ76]

We've used Federal nickel plated brass in my wife's .338 WM for about 20 years. Granted, we don't do a lot of reloading for it but....we haven't detected any "flaking" or scratching of the dies. While I don't have a direct comparison between "plated" vs "non-plated" with her particular load.....there "does not" appear to be a pressure increase with the plated brass. Our loads exceed the "book" recommendations, yet appear to be "safe" in her rifle. As with any rifle, in any given cartridge, each can exhibit different load capacities before reaching/exceeding maximum "safe" pressures!

IMO, with absolutely "zero" scientific verification....."plated" brass actually may "handle" increased pressures (primer pocket expansion/ excessive case expansion) before showing pressure signs, better than conventional brass due to the nickel being a bit "tougher" (less malleable) than brass. Granted, this is probably insignificant in the "big" picture!

At the very least, it's easier to recover your brass in the field! memtb

Thanks memtb, I apprecaite the info

It's definitely easier to recover the brass Lol, and it makes sense the case would be tougher than brass but then who knows.

As I mentioned earlier, we have used nickell plated before but always loaded to the most accurate load and not the hottest.

Maybe the pressures would be the same, I'll find out eventually.

Thanks again

 

[cr30378]

I load a 7-08 with nickle brass. I prep my case proper,I always lube well and clean well ,never had any issues with nothing and iam shooting max load.Been doing it for years.

 

[LVJ76]

I load a 7-08 with nickle brass. I prep my case proper,I always lube well and clean well ,never had any issues with nothing and iam shooting max load.Been doing it for years.

Thanks for you help cr30378. Glad to hear that no issues with max loads