Please Help Reloader Newbie

[timberelk]

I think my OCD is kicking in to high gear...

After spending the better half of 3 hour meticulously measuring and measuring and measuring again I got 14 pieces of brass FL sized, trimmed and chamfered (the 14 includes 6 once fired and the other 8 or Hornady new brass).

I trimmed all cases to .025 per Hornady spec book and the shoulders via Hornady shoulder comparator gauge are between .625-.622. I even sized some of the brass 2 or 3 times but it seems like my Hornady FL die won't size all the shoulders to the exact size...?

Fire formed brass was from .626 to .629 on the shoulders depending on which once fired case I measured (I think the ones less than .629 did not expand all the way in the chamber when I fired them originally in my gun)

I keep reading where you only want to bump the shoulder back by .002 or so but my range in shoulder measurements range by .003. Am I doing something wrong with the FL die??

FYI I set up the die by screwing it down until it contacted the shell holder the plus 1/4 turn

 

[timberelk]

I may have answered my own question...

FYI I am using the Hornady FL dies and bullet seater pack that cost approx $35-$40.

I measured 10 Hornady Whitetail special ammo with the horady shoulder guage and they measured from .623-.626

Then I measured 12 Hornady precision hunter eldx with the shoulder gauge and they came out to be .625-.626.

So it seems like my range of .003 (from .622-.625) for my FL sized brass isn't bad but not ideal... maybe I need to turn my die out that 1/4 turn so the shell holder just contacts the die and possibly that will give me the consistent .625 shoulder I'm looking to achieve?

Sorry to keep posting guys, just trying to ensure I give you guys all the info I have so you can make recommendations

 

[L.Sherm]

If your in the .002 - .003 range don't worry about it your probably getting more spring back in some pieces. Honestly I doudt there's very many of us who could shoot the difference of .001.

 

[AZShooter]

I read the entire thread and feel you are over thinking things. All the suggestions are valid but why kill yourself with over doing what is not that complicated a procedure?

First off did you know factory or virgin brass is made undersize? It has to be to fit all chambers and in some instances autoloaders. So doing any comparisons is not going to be helpful.

The heck with the measurements of the shoulder to base. Instead of calling it partial FL sizing perhaps a better description would be "fitted" FL sizing. Set up the FL die with a 1/8" or so gap between the shell holder and die. Size a fired case. Wipe off and try to put it in the chamber. If there is bolt closure resistance lower the die 1/4 turn and repeat. At some point you may discover the brass will get tighter as the body taper is getting reduced before the shoulder, lengthening the brass. (this doesn't happen in all situations) Keep going in 1/4 turn increments till you find the die position where the brass fits the chamber without any bolt closure resistance. Size a few more pieces and verify that the die setting will size all brass to fit with no bolt closure resistance. Size all brass and proceed to cleaning and loading. I don't trust the lock nut on most dies so I use a feeler gauge set to determine the actual gap between the die and shell holder.

As for trimming there is no need to do this until the cartridge gets close to the end of the chamber. Read Varmint Al's comments on the subject:

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Case_Length (thanks Al!)

Quote from Al: "I usually find that the factory recommendations for case length leave a 0.050 inch to 0.070 inch gap between the end of the case and the actual length of the chamber." At .003"-.005" lengthening of a case using FL sizing instead of fitted FL sizing would take a long time to need trimming. Using the "fitted" FL sizing method may keep you from trimming at all for the life of the case.

Unfortunately you will have to measure to determine the end of the chamber dimension. Use a Sinclair chamber length gauge. https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...s/sinclair-chamber-length-gage-prod32925.aspx

How to use:

There are usually several ways to get things done with reloading. I have been handloading for 35 yrs. I am always trying to get the job done with minimal fuss and of course the best accuracy. Eventually you will find what methods work best for you.
Enjoy your new activity.

 

[L.Sherm]

I have dies that doing the method you described will bump my shoulders .007 or more. Well you keep doing that and your gonna get case separation from over stretching the brass. Not only that you will have to trim them all the time. Ask me how I know, been there done that .To each his own.

 

[timberelk]

I read the entire thread and feel you are over thinking things. All the suggestions are valid but why kill yourself with over doing what is not that complicated a procedure?

First off did you know factory or virgin brass is made undersize? It has to be to fit all chambers and in some instances autoloaders. So doing any comparisons is not going to be helpful.

The heck with the measurements of the shoulder to base. Instead of calling it partial FL sizing perhaps a better description would be "fitted" FL sizing. Set up the FL die with a 1/8" or so gap between the shell holder and die. Size a fired case. Wipe off and try to put it in the chamber. If there is bolt closure resistance lower the die 1/4 turn and repeat. At some point you may discover the brass will get tighter as the body taper is getting reduced before the shoulder, lengthening the brass. (this doesn't happen in all situations) Keep going in 1/4 turn increments till you find the die position where the brass fits the chamber without any bolt closure resistance. Size a few more pieces and verify that the die setting will size all brass to fit with no bolt closure resistance. Size all brass and proceed to cleaning and loading. I don't trust the lock nut on most dies so I use a feeler gauge set to determine the actual gap between the die and shell holder.

As for trimming there is no need to do this until the cartridge gets close to the end of the chamber. Read Varmint Al's comments on the subject:

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Case_Length (thanks Al!)

Quote from Al: "I usually find that the factory recommendations for case length leave a 0.050 inch to 0.070 inch gap between the end of the case and the actual length of the chamber." At .003"-.005" lengthening of a case using FL sizing instead of fitted FL sizing would take a long time to need trimming. Using the "fitted" FL sizing method may keep you from trimming at all for the life of the case.

Unfortunately you will have to measure to determine the end of the chamber dimension. Use a Sinclair chamber length gauge. https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...s/sinclair-chamber-length-gage-prod32925.aspx

How to use:

There are usually several ways to get things done with reloading. I have been handloading for 35 yrs. I am always trying to get the job done with minimal fuss and of course the best accuracy. Eventually you will find what methods work best for you.
Enjoy your new activity.

Thanks for the detailed response and taking the time to read everything! When you are trying the brass in your chamber, did you remove the firing pin and ejector? I can easily remove the firing pin but am struggling to remove the pin the holds the ejector?

Should I be concerned with my die pushing the should back to anywhere between .622 and .625 while not adjusting the die? It would seem to me that that is a tolerance of .003, is that a typical tolerance for "cheap" FL size dies?

 

[AZShooter]

I don't bother to remove anything from the bolt, I just size the brass and see if it bolt closes easily for hunting applications.

There are so many articles that were written for bench rest type rifles, tweaking to the nth degree. Sporter rifles can gain some accuracy with reasonable attempts at consistency in ammo but the detailed stuff can go too far. 1000 yds for competition? Now that is another story where every small detail counts.

I don't understand how you are getting different measurements. I say don't worry, size the brass to fit rifle's chamber and go shoot it. Even if the brass was out by .003" I seriously doubt you could see an difference in accuracy from a sporter rifle.

 

[timberelk]

I don't bother to remove anything from the bolt, I just size the brass and see if it bolt closes easily for hunting applications.

There are so many articles that were written for bench rest type rifles, tweaking to the nth degree. Sporter rifles can gain some accuracy with reasonable attempts at consistency in ammo but the detailed stuff can go too far. 1000 yds for competition? Now that is another story where every small detail counts.

I don't understand how you are getting different measurements. I say don't worry, size the brass to fit rifle's chamber and go shoot it. Even if the brass was out by .003" I seriously doubt you could see an difference in accuracy from a sporter rifle.

I'm not sure how I'm getting different shoulder measurements either! I've measured over and over again! Maybe it's my Hornady dies or lee challenger press or maybe the amount of force I put on the press handle?

As long as I shoot .5-1moa I'll be happy! But I also want to make sure I maximize the brass life and if I'm pushing the shoulder back by .003-.006 my brass is not going to last long is what I've been told and read


I am being OCD because I want this to be safe accurate ammo that will chamber for hunting and maximize the brass life... but this is also my first time reloading

 

[parshal]

I'm not sure how I'm getting different shoulder measurements either! I've measured over and over again! Maybe it's my Hornady dies or lee challenger press or maybe the amount of force I put on the press handle?

I get the same thing from time to time even on freshly annealed brass. I've pretty much accepted it and simply do as AZ says. I set my die where every piece of sized brass fits and call it good.

The best advice I'd give a new reloader is to reload in small batches and shoot. You'll tweak your reload process each time you do it so doing it in small batches gives you more opportunity to improve your process.

 

[timberelk]

I get the same thing from time to time even on freshly annealed brass. I've pretty much accepted it and simply do as AZ says. I set my die where every piece of sized brass fits and call it good.

The best advice I'd give a new reloader is to reload in small batches and shoot. You'll tweak your reload process each time you do it so doing it in small batches gives you more opportunity to improve your process.

So your dies will also fluctuate by anywhere from .001-.003 when they push the shoulders back?

 

[parshal]

Yep, and it's not just one caliber. I see it on multiple different calibers. A couple thousandths isn't the end of the world for me. If it's more than .003" I'll probably set that case aside as a fouling shot and measure it again.

 

[timberelk]

Yep, and it's not just one caliber. I see it on multiple different calibers. A couple thousandths isn't the end of the world for me. If it's more than .003" I'll probably set that case aside as a fouling shot and measure it again.

What die can I purchase so I only have .001 or so of fluctuating between shoulders wen FL sizing?

 

[parshal]

It's not the die, it's the brass. Brass has springback and some will spring back more than others. At least that's my uninformed opinion but AZ did mention that, too.

 

[timberelk]

It's not the die, it's the brass. Brass has springback and some will spring back more than others. At least that's my uninformed opinion but AZ did mention that, too.

Ohhhh ok! That makes sense, would higher quality brass like Nosler or Lapua typically have less bounce back?