• If you are being asked to change your password, and unsure how to do it, follow these instructions. Click here

Pack size?

I think the key question to ask yourself is if you're going on a camping trip or a hunting trip. If you're going hunting, you aren't going to be in camp except to sleep or if you're stuck in your tent because of weather/visibility. So don't take a bunch of extra junk for camp. I've also been slowly buying very light backpacking camping gear from backcountry mountain focused gear brands, not hunting brands. They have a much bigger customer base, more $$$ for R&D, and the quality is just much better. Although it does seem like hunting brands are starting to catch up, finally. My pack is a Mystery Ranch Metcalf (4333 cu in). The pack itself is pretty heavy but carries weight well. I wouldn't say I'm in love with it, but it definitely works. I went on a 4 night trip recently and my pack was 46lbs with way too much food, and 2 liters of water in my camelback. That weight included my 55mm mini spotter and tripod, but not my binos or rifle. Pack was nowhere near full and nothing was on the outside except my tripod (pretty light) and trekking poles (not light, but probably never going to break one). Binos are always on my chest in a harness unless they're on the tripod and I'm planted somewhere glassing, and rifle is in a Kifaru rifle bearer under the arm but gets strapped to the side of the pack once game is on the ground. Keeping my pack light allows me to move more freely with camp on my back and to carry a heavier rifle that gives me more confidence shooting long (11 lbs loaded).

Extra socks and underwear? I don't pack anything 'extra' anymore, as in a change of clothes. One of each thing. Wear your socks to bed and they're magically dry in the morning no matter how wet they got - I learned that on multi day backcountry skiing and mountaineering trips in the PNW. Changing underwear on a backpacking trip is absolutely useless unless you've **** your pants, in which case you're probably very sick and in a whole world of trouble. The thing I see most people doing is taking too much stuff that they don't even use. Chairs, gadgets, comfort items, and extra clothes. What's the point of extra changes of clothes in the backcountry? Half an hour into the day you're soaked in sweat and they're stinky and dirty again. Wearing extra socks actually makes your feet cold. If you feel like you need extra socks, you really just need better boots. If you can comfortably fit extra socks into your boots, then your boots don't fit. Thin merino socks are very warm. Thick or double socks = blisters because they bunch up and create pressure points. Ask a mountaineer what kind of socks they wear.....they're not thick. They wear warm boots.

Rain gear, an appropriate puffy for the temps you're going to see, a sweater, and a good merino first layer will get you through some very, very cold weather. Get as many items in merino wool as possible, it's warm when wet, cool when you're hot, and odor resistant. Rain gear also provides a huge boost to warmth when sitting and glassing. It's wind proof and keeps all that warm air inside your puffy and your pants. Lightweight tents pack tiny these days and tarps even smaller. A good full size inflatable mattress rolls up to the size of a nalgene bottle. Down sleeping bags compress to a crazy small size. If you keep a couple layers on when you sleep (especially your puffy to keep your core warm), you can get away with a higher temp rated and less bulky sleeping bag, but you do need to be sure you're warm enough to get good sleep! A Sawyer water filter is barely bigger than a roll of quarters. A Jetboil or similar fits a canister with enough fuel for several days and the stove itself inside a 1 liter pot - which is the only pot you need for dehydrated meals and hot drinks. You can probably fit your fire starter kit (I can't imagine how that could be something that's bulky but someone mentioned it as a point of concern) inside there, too. The only thing that changes my pack size is food. I haven't figured out how to shrink that, and I always pack extra. Can't seem to shake that habit. My Metcalf carries all I need for up to a week, although it gets tight with food for that many days.
 
This did not work for me. I wore my sweaty socks to bed the first night and all that did was make my feet cold. I ended up changing socks for sleeping.
Part of the trick here is definitely (correction: I've heard from a very good friend that I've climbed a ton of mountains with but I definitely don't have any experience with synthetic fill bags, so, you know, I can't really say "definitely") to have a down sleeping bag and I've always worn thin merino wool socks. Not sure how it would work if your bag has synthetic fill, as I don't have any. But I've always been told down is key. I also always wore my boot liners to bed over my socks when snow camping, and it always worked and I definitely sweat a lot. Those ski boots also have zero breathability so your feet are pretty wet after climbing and skiing all day.
 
Last edited:
Part of the trick here is definitely to have a down sleeping bag and I've always worn thin merino wool socks. Not sure how it would work if you bag has synthetic fill, as I don't have any. But I've always been told down is key. I also always wore my boot liners to bed over my socks when snow camping, and it always worked and I definitely sweat a lot. Those ski boots also have zero breathability so your feet are pretty wet after climbing and skiing all day.
Down sleeping bag, merino socks, no boot liners. 🤷‍♂️
 
Part of the trick here is definitely to have a down sleeping bag and I've always worn thin merino wool socks. Not sure how it would work if you bag has synthetic fill, as I don't have any. But I've always been told down is key. I also always wore my boot liners to bed over my socks when snow camping, and it always worked and I definitely sweat a lot. Those ski boots also have zero breathability so your feet are pretty wet after climbing and skiing all day.
you've been told? That's not the same as having experience in both.

Either will work as long as you don't have a down allergy.

In snow and wet, synthetic is factually better. It retains its warmth even when wet.
Down offers a lot of warmth per weight ratio with nice compression. Now a days they're all expensive. Generally the more expensive, the lighter more durable the materials.

As far as socks, I rather let them dry out over night. I actually swap them with another pair, on different days and have a sleeping pair for week long outings or more.

The reason is because I hate foot fungus, but also being dry is important in 0-40 degree range that
You often find in the mountains. I do agree with not using heavy socks unnecessarily.
 
Last edited:
you've been told? That's not the same as having experience in both.

Either will work as long as you don't have a down allergy.

In snow and wet, synthetic is factually better. It retains its warmth even when wet.
Down offers a lot of warmth per weight ratio with nice compression. Now a days they're all expensive. Generally the more expensive, the lighter more durable the materials.

As far as socks, I rather let them dry out over night. I actually swap them with another pair, on different days and have a sleeping pair for week long outings or more.

The reason is because I hate foot fungus, but also being dry is important in 0-40 degree range that
You often find in the mountains. I do agree with not using heavy socks unnecessarily.
Thank you for giving me the full internet scrutiny on my word choice. Yes, I am aware that being told is not the same as having experience, which is why I said "I've been told". I didn't miraculously discover this trick on my own, my old climbing partner told me about it and he told me down works better. I have experience with down, as very clearly stated. Everyone's got their own experiences to draw from, just sharing mine. I'll be sure to edit for clarity.

I have some synthetic puffy jackets for just the reasons you stated, as it retains loft when wet whereas down can lose it when wet. I'm much more likely to get my jacket wet than my sleeping bag. It's not so easy to keep a jacket dry that's being exposed to the elements throughout the day and getting sweaty on the inside. A whole lot of modern down bags and garments are now getting some really effective treatments to keep the down dry, as well. In many hundreds of nights of snow and/or wet camping in Washington I factually never had a single night where my down sleeping bag was wet enough to effect the loft and cause me to be cold or sleepless, even on multiday climbs with every available kind of precipitation and wet snow. Packing it in a silnylon compression sack and being a little careful about how you handle it are easy enough ways to keep it dry. But the risk is certainly there for a really cold night if it ever does get wet....I'll probably be eating my words the next time out for being a smart *** about it!

Everybody does all this stuff differently, just sharing how I go about it. Works for me, but YMMV as they say.
 
I have some synthetic puffy jackets for just the reasons you stated, as it retains loft when wet whereas down can lose it when wet. I'm much more likely to get my jacket wet than my sleeping bag. It's not so easy to keep a jacket dry that's being exposed to the elements throughout the day and getting sweaty on the inside. A whole lot of modern down bags and garments are now getting some really effective treatments to keep the down dry, as well. In many hundreds of nights of snow and/or wet camping in Washington I factually never had a single night where my down sleeping bag was wet enough to effect the loft and cause me to be cold or sleepless, even on multiday climbs with every available kind of precipitation and wet snow. Packing it in a silnylon compression sack and being a little careful about how you handle it are easy enough ways to keep it dry. But the risk is certainly there for a really cold night if it ever does get wet....I'll probably be eating my words the next time out for being a smart *** about it!

Everybody does all this stuff differently, just sharing how I go about it. Works for me, but YMMV as they say.
You are being a smartass about it. I'm not attacking you about doing things differently. I'm clarifying that "hearing about synthetic" is not words to stand on when giving "your experience."
Which brings me to your "factual" nights out are subjective to the reader, so not a fact. A fact would be something an objective person with reasonable logic could come to a particular conclusion…we the reader have no confirmation of anyone's nights out.

Look, all it takes is falling into a river during a crossing or wind driven rain on a summit and that's it. A leak in the shelter. Dig a snow cave, and you wake up in a puddle. It's why the military doesn't issue down. You're soaked from hunting in rain, what are you doing with your wet clothes?

Keep in mind I'm not for or against either and use both. Just pointing out it's not that cut and dry. (Pun)

Add a waterproof compression sack, and you add weight. I personally use a sealline compression sack, I don't mind the weight. I've fallen into water multiple times. If one gets better materials for your sleeping bag, you pay more money. That's how it works.
 
You are being a smartass about it. I'm not attacking you about doing things differently. I'm clarifying that "hearing about synthetic" is not words to stand on when giving "your experience."
Which brings me to your "factual" nights out are subjective to the reader, so not a fact. A fact would be something an objective person with reasonable logic could come to a particular conclusion…we the reader have no confirmation of anyone's nights out.

Look, all it takes is falling into a river during a crossing or wind driven rain on a summit and that's it. A leak in the shelter. Dig a snow cave, and you wake up in a puddle. It's why the military doesn't issue down. You're soaked from hunting in rain, what are you doing with your wet clothes?

Keep in mind I'm not for or against either and use both. Just pointing out it's not that cut and dry. (Pun)

Add a waterproof compression sack, and you add weight. I personally use a sealline compression sack, I don't mind the weight. I've fallen into water multiple times. If one gets better materials for your sleeping bag, you pay more money. That's how it works.

Have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
I was going to jump to a Kuiu Pro LT 7000 but Alps just announced they coming out with a 5800 CI pack that will fit my system which I think will be the right size for next time without being overkill.
 
I have this to sell.
$45 shipped
 

Attachments

  • ALICE Pack1.jpg
    ALICE Pack1.jpg
    61.8 KB · Views: 45
  • ALICE Pack2.jpg
    ALICE Pack2.jpg
    60.1 KB · Views: 50
This did not work for me. I wore my sweaty socks to bed the first night and all that did was make my feet cold. I ended up changing socks for sleeping.
Small damp items will dry out if you remove them and cozy up with them overnight, preferable not on top of them. The downside to this old trick is the vapor escaping up thru the sleeping bag fabric can sometimes leave the bag damp (or frozen) for the next night. Damp items in the bag can also leave you less warm in really cold conditions. It can work but its not really the greatest trick to rely on, the solution is to prevent getting wet during the day.
 
I bought an Elite 3800 ci pack from ALPS outdoorz, it seems like a really nice pack and based on some research I did should be about the right size.
But I can't figure out how I am for the life of me going to get all my junk in there.
You did good, thats a nice pack and about the right size. I use a 60L size. Your pack, shelter, pad and sleeping bag will be your most heaviest and bulkiest items so get the very lightest you can afford. Ive used the meat shelf to pack in my camp items and that works really well and lets me keep the main pack setup the same for day hunts. I used a cheap duffle bag to put the camp items in but in wet weather conditions I add a dry bag stuff sac for my sleeping bag. Only bring the stuff you will use and you'll fit it all in, set your main pack up for your day hunt, then only bring the shelter, pad, bag, food, stove, filter in the duffle bag and load that on the meat shelf. Thats all you need for the overnight part and should be the only difference in weight/what you bring.
 
I was going to jump to a Kuiu Pro LT 7000 but Alps just announced they coming out with a 5800 CI pack that will fit my system which I think will be the right size for next time without being overkill.
I love my Kuiu Pro LT but if you've already invested in the Alps frame it looks like a nearly identical system. 5800 is huge, dont let that trick you into bringing more weight... :)
 
Top