Optics

[Taj]

Just because you spend a lot of $$ on a scope doesn't mean it won't fail. I've had a Swarovski, a Zeiss and 2 Leupolds fail in the field, while on hunts. They were all fixed by the respective companies but that is no conciliation when you are on a multi thousand dollar hunt. That being said I still have one rifle with an old Redfield 5 Star that has thousands of rounds down range and I'm afraid to change. Might screw up the rifle's karma. Buy quality optics but it still doesn't hurt to keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Sockeye66]

My experience has led me to trust scopes made in Japan for clarity, precision, and ruggedness. The Trijicon Credo mentioned earlier has been one of my favorites along with some older Bushnell Elites. Several of the other scope manufacturers mentioned here now say "Designed, engineered, and assembled in U.S.A", because the glass/parts come from Japan. Older Tascos (particularly the Euro Class) were decent scopes for their time because of the Japanese quality.

 

[Bob2650]

Am I the only one who mounts iron sights as a backup? I read of too many hunts ruined by a broken scope.
Some of my rifles have only iron sights.

 

[RichCoyle]

My rules alot easier. To alot of the guys on here it will make since, others maybe not. To each their own. There are a lot of really good commercial off the shelf rifles that shoot great and I would buy a scope that's comparable in price to that rifle's price that's fully functional and not garbage. If I take the time and the money to build a custom rifle , 4 to $5,000 or more depending on purpose it's competition rifle I would spend at least that much to get the full benefit of what I put into that rifle or built that rifle for with the glass that's going on top of it , it wouldn't make any sense not to.,why build the rifle. Basically what I'm saying is caliber ( build quality)of the glass on the rifle is commensurate with the caliber ( build quality)of the rifle the glass goes on. Im a 28.5 yr retired vet. Everyone doesnt need a combat proven and tested scope, but do your do diligence, reviews online are not the true gospel on everything. In the end if your off the shelf 1300$ rifle shoots lights out, and tracks great with the 1k scope you can afford go hunt or ring steel. You can always save for an upgrade down the road if needed.

Well, here's what I did. I wanted a .257 Weatherby. I already had a Savage so I bought a .25-06 barrel from Midway and had it rechambered. I bought a Swarovski z5 5-25X52 and Talley rings.

Went to the range every morning for six days and fired one shot. The "group" was 1.04".

Folks at the range snickered about a nice scope on a junk rifle, but I was as happy as a clam.

 

[RichCoyle]

Nice collection, still if you lap rings, buy better rings! Top of the line rings do not need to be lapped! If they are not concentric, then you have bigger problems like a bent rail, or not concentric tapped rifle.

When one wants a scope with zero ring marks and great ring grip lap the rings. Actions are not always machined or drilled correctly.

 

[RichCoyle]

Pssh. I don't reckon anything is marine proof.
In like 2012 I found myself in Afghanistan again. The PX truck came by so we could restock on dip and cigarettes.Their convoy rolled in at night and just so happened to be a quiet week.

Most of that convoy crew slept in or on their trucks but as usual we took some IDF, nothing serious, but we moved to go intercept the mortar team and feed the ground more blood.

These idiots left their rifles on the bipods all around the truck, and when the IDF came, they scrambled in a hurry to move their vehicles so we could get our trucks out the ECP to go do our thing. One of these Marines left their rifle under the truck and it got backed over it with an armored duece 1/2. I've never seen a m4 barrel bend like that.

It's why we can't have nice things.

My brother was in Nam. There was a fire in the officer's quarters or officer's mess. The army arrived with a fire truck and ran the hose. Before they could start a pickup with someone in charge pulls up and started giving instructions. But no water came out. A quick trouble shooting discovered the boss parked on the hose.

 

[doctorjj]

When one wants a scope with zero ring marks and great ring grip lap the rings. Actions are not always machined or drilled correctly.

Thank you!

 

[comfisherman]

Am I the only one who mounts iron sights as a backup? I read of too many hunts ruined by a broken scope.
Some of my rifles have only iron sights.

Not the only one but they aren't without their faults. Not the least of which is removing your very firmly attached scope as the trend towards a qd mount has gone the way of the dodo. On one of my iron sighted rifles we managed to black tape around the mag box a small torx wrench the size of the rings that was accessible with the floor plate open with a thin knife. Idea came after a scope pooped on a friend and even though he had irons we lacked the requisite tools affield to remove the rings.

So little effort on rifle rifle sights that they have their own quirks. Basically is ruger still putting good sights on a very small slect group of guns. Then the Williams aluminum sights sets and similar derivatives, on the premium end are the necg. While a fair bit less agile than most, have managed to shear of the 6-48 screws of two fire sight setups. Despite a final fit with lock tite I've also had a rear sight base as well as several lite pipes make escapes. Durimg that time the mounted scopes and red dot have maintained zero and held up.

My next bear daily carry is in the early stages of parts ordering. I'm going to have necg banded front and rear island sights nitride from an outfit that does pistol parts in an attempt to get the chromoly prepped for a life of salt exposure and neglect. Lot of work for when my last ones scope is 10 years of abuse and is still rolling.



Back in the subject of premium Optics, there is a bit of a bifurcation. Some trend towards absolute optical performance and others towards absolute reliability. Zco and the like certainly try for both...

 

[VTbluegrass]

Academic argument, extreme minority of hunters use scopes costing over $1000. Stand at a public access point a survey folks and you just won't see it. I can only go to one local club where my Swaro Z3 doesn't get side glances and buddies putting their pinky in the air joking about my country club money. Buy the best you can and don't expect the moon from budget optics. Also don't let people tell you your rig sucks if you are making shots and killing game.

 

[JiggyIi]

There are many factors that go into the Price of any item. Cost to design, produce and sell a product includes materials, labor (which includes location) and mfg overhead (which includes product design) and general overhead (which includes marketing, sales and admin, etc.) then you have to add on both required/desired profit to get to Price.

Historically, for most manufactured products those costs related to actual production (materials, labor, and mfg overhead) have been ~20-30% of the price overall industries. So note somewhere between 70 and 80% of the price is unrelated to the actual cost to produce.

There is not always a direct relationship between quality cost. Three factors that most people don't consider about why the price of product is what it is are 1) Profit desires, 2) expected number of Units sold), and what I would call the Psychology of Pricing as it relates to human behavior.

Profit required and profit desired and expected number of units - if I have two scopes that cost the same to produce but the "market" (expected units is 1/2 that of the other) the profit portion has to be doubled to meet required/desired return on investment. Even though the market may only be 1/2 it doesn't mean the product will die if I can get the required price.

The Human psychology part of price and buying decisions ("buying status", "buying to remove reputational risk", or "buying for to ensure job security") can fill books and their is an entire consulting field on it. Anyone who doesn't think that plays into outdoor products is naive. It even plays into military purchases where you think it wouldn't. A simple example is cars - Mercedes, BMW etc sell anywhere from 30-50% more than a Toyotas and Toyotas out perform them on many of the most basic specifications. With respect to military acquisitions where someone's life is on the line, think about the various scenarios we have read about where controversies have arisen where the best performing product wasn't selected and contrary to popular belief the government always doesn't buy the lowest price product - that regulation is easily circumvented.

Not saying a $500 scope is as good as $1500 scope but it would be incorrect to assume a $1500-$2000 scope is factually/technically/mechanically twice as good as $750-$1000 scope.

All products sometimes fail and whether Product A's failure rate is 1% and Product B's failure rate is 3%; it doesn't matter when you are in the 1% of Product A customers who had the failure and by the way there are very few rigorous statistically valid tests for outdoor products.

It is funny, we can buy military ammunition at 2 1/2 times less than what the government pays for the same exact stuff ️

 

[Rick Richard]

It is funny, we can buy military ammunition at 2 1/2 times less than what the government pays for the same exact stuff ️

And who is the government? ….politicians…enough said.