Old Recipe vs New Manufactured Powder

[Germannator]

Well folks, this is my introductory post in the forum. Joined about a year ago and have read a lot of your useful posts.

Did a lot of shooting from 1972~1991 and then throttled back due to our third daughter being born and work related requirements of my time... I had plenty of everything when it came to components, pounds and pounds of powder and bullets out my hind end.

I got back into shooting now that the kids are gone but work still takes up a lot of my time. I finally shot up all my Reloader 19 powder from 1990. My pet load was 59.0 grains behind 168gr Sierra MKHP and 165gr Nolser Ballistic Tips. 1/2" groups at 200 yards were the norm out of my Beretta M502!

Well I ran out of powder last fall and it took me until last month to find some. I load up my pet loads with Barnes 165 TSX, Hornady 165 GMX, Nosler 165 Ballistic Tips, Sierra 165 Spitzer Boat Tails and Sierra 168 MK's & Berger 168 LVD Hunting bullets.

Just loaded 5 of each but all the 165s at 59.0 and the 165's at 58.5grs. Should I load some more at 54 or 55 and start working my way up? I can always pull the ones I loaded.

The little voice in the back of my tiny mind told me that the new formula Reloader 19 is now made in Sweden and made me hesitate. Comparing my Sierra old manual vs the current concerns me! In talking with Rich at Sierra, he said to back off to 54 grains and work my way back up until I get the accuracy at my pressure limit.

Other pertinent info:

Federal LR Benchrest Primers
Brand new Lapua brass (was shooting Norma back in the 90's)
OAL 3.320"

So my question is, should I be overly concerned about Alliant's change in manufacturer or plant of manufacturer? The whole reason I shopped around and waited to find the RE19 was because of the groups I shot and how clean burning RE19 is!

Thanks fellows, I'm getting more cautious in my 58 years on planet earth!

 

[RT2506]

You never did state what caliber you are loading. The first law of hand loading you must follow to the letter of the law is ALWAYS back off to a starting load and work up anytime you change anything in a load. Those mono bullets will give you much higher pressure than cup and core bullets with the same powder charge.

 

[Germannator]

I'm loading 30'06

You reference to the solid core bullets... That was another reason I hesitated.

In general does the old traditional Hercules RE19 in the metal can from the 90's and new Swedish manufactured RE19 in the plastic container have a more drastic difference than what we use to see in just changing lot numbers years ago?

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm loading 30'06

You reference to the solid core bullets... That was another reason I hesitated.

In general does the old traditional Hercules RE19 in the metal can from the 90's and new Swedish manufactured RE19 in the plastic container have a more drastic difference than what we use to see in just changing lot numbers years ago?

Even with modern technology, newly manufactured powder's burn rates will still differentiate from lot-to-lot of the same powder make & model, especially based on powder lots from 2 decades ago. It could very-well be the same, but why chance it, when it will only cost you less than a 1/2 lb of powder to work up your loads with your new lot of powder...

Without a doubt, I would definitely start over with working your loads up, just to be better safe, than sorry.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I'm loading 30'06

You reference to the solid core bullets... That was another reason I hesitated.

In general does the old traditional Hercules RE19 in the metal can from the 90's and new Swedish manufactured RE19 in the plastic container have a more drastic difference than what we use to see in just changing lot numbers years ago?

the hercules rl powder from the 90's was also made in Sweden... We've been burning it since then too...
Muddy is correct though, back her off and work your load back up to accuracy/pressure... especially with both a bullet AND powder lot change. You are basically at a new load at that point.

 

[pods8]

He said different brass too I believe. Start low and rework for sure. You efforts can be more concentrated since you know the gun but you need to find that baseline.

By the way my 168gr barnes load with IMR4350 in 30-06 is 2gr lighter than my 165gr Sierra btsp load for similar velocity, something to keep in mind as noted above.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have found lot to lot variations to be quite good with ALLIANT powder, as far as I can tell, only the name changed, not the powder, it's still being made where it always has.
The industry standard of 3% variation in lots seems to be pretty good, yes, there are faster and slower lots, but if you drop your previous load by 5% and work up, you should be safe.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Germannator]

Thanks for all your good recommendations... I'll back them down 5% and work my way back up. I'll be extra careful with those solid copper bullets, especially with their longer full diameter contact area of the bullet to the bore. Looks like a huge difference in bearing surface so that's of extra concern!

Thanks guys... Keep your muzzle pointed down range.

Germannator

 

[barefooter56]

Thanks for all your good recommendations... I'll back them down 5% and work my way back up. I'll be extra careful with those solid copper bullets, especially with their longer full diameter contact area of the bullet to the bore. Looks like a huge difference in bearing surface so that's of extra concern!

Thanks guys... Keep your muzzle pointed down range.

Germannator

Germannator,
Please upgrade your reloading manuals so you have the most recent data at hand or go to the powder manufacturers website and check their load data on the bullet/powder/cartridge combination you are loading for. We don't want your return spoiled by a blown up , locked up rifle or personal injury.

 

[Germannator]

Phil,

Sierra sent me updated manual pages for my 30'06 and 300WSM.

I guess I ought to let the eagles on my dollars see some daylight and break down and update a couple of my reloading manuals... At $48/box for those Berger bullets, it doesn't leave me with much manual spending money. I guess manuals are still cheaper than my insurance co-pays!

Does Berger's manual have loading data for Reloader 19 for a 30'06? What powder does your manual recommend for those 168gr VLD hunting in a 300WSM?

30'06 (Beretta M502 w/Leupold VX3 4.514x40mm BC) and 300WSM (Sako M85 Bavarian w/Leupold VX-R 4-12x50mm) are my long range .308 dia. 168gr VLD setups.

Germannator

 

[barefooter56]

Phil,

Sierra sent me updated manual pages for my 30'06 and 300WSM.

I guess I ought to let the eagles on my dollars see some daylight and break down and update a couple of my reloading manuals... At $48/box for those Berger bullets, it doesn't leave me with much manual spending money. I guess manuals are still cheaper than my insurance co-pays!

Does Berger's manual have loading data for Reloader 19 for a 30'06? What powder does your manual recommend for those 168gr VLD hunting in a 300WSM?

30'06 (Beretta M502 w/Leupold VX3 4.514x40mm BC) and 300WSM (Sako M85 Bavarian w/Leupold VX-R 4-12x50mm) are my long range .308 dia. 168gr VLD setups.

Germannator

Germannator,
Our manual does show a load for RE-19 and our 168 grain VLD FOR THE .30-06. We do not list "pet" loads in our manual because of the fact that a real accuracy load id based on testing to find what your rifle likes. Manuals are cheaper than co-pays and new rifles.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Phil,

Sierra sent me updated manual pages for my 30'06 and 300WSM.

I guess I ought to let the eagles on my dollars see some daylight and break down and update a couple of my reloading manuals... At $48/box for those Berger bullets, it doesn't leave me with much manual spending money. I guess manuals are still cheaper than my insurance co-pays!

Does Berger's manual have loading data for Reloader 19 for a 30'06? What powder does your manual recommend for those 168gr VLD hunting in a 300WSM?

30'06 (Beretta M502 w/Leupold VX3 4.514x40mm BC) and 300WSM (Sako M85 Bavarian w/Leupold VX-R 4-12x50mm) are my long range .308 dia. 168gr VLD setups.

Germannator

Berger bullets cost what they do because of all the work that has taken place behind the scenes and during development to ensure you get the best and most accurate product...

However, if you really break it down, they cost less than most other "premium" bullets. If you compare the price of 2 boxes of Nosler Accubonds (they come 50/box) to a box of Bergers (100/box), then you will see the Accubonds actually cost significantly MORE, for an inferior product.

I shot Accubonds from about 2008-2013, and Bergers from 2013-current. And have taken game with both. The Accubonds, IMO, are an not as good a product.

 

[Germannator]

Muddy,

I know that Bergers are the best/most economical bullets out there for long range shooting and taking game... I was just busting Phil's chops because he was saying you should really get the loading manual from the bullet mfr because of the different pressures based upon each mfr's unique bullet design.

What I was commenting on was that Sierra, who I have purchased two manuals in the past but both are older, goes out of their way on customer support! Their experts man the phones, respond to emails and send out updated manual pages at your request.

I like having a hardbound book to refer to... I have two Speer manuals, 2 Hornady manuals, two sierra manuals, 3 or 4 Winchester Manuals, 3 or 4 Hercules manuals, same with Accurate manuals and one Nosler manual. The only ones of these that are newer -Post 2010, are the free ones... Like I said, I need to unhinge my wallet and let the eagles fly!

The internet and reloading forums are great for us reloaders but I truly believe you should then check it back to a good hard reference source where a lab has been involved with developing the loads and have the ability to pressure test the load!