Ok, this is weird

[Radman]

So I was out shooting my Ruger no 1, in 25-06. Trying to find an acceptable load with 100 gr swift a-frames. I have a good load with norma 100 gr soft points and 56.5 gr of accurate mag-pro. Last 3 shot groups have averaged 3/4" @ 100, and the rifle is sighted in @ 2" high at that distance. Average velocity according to labradar is 3111 fps, with an SD of 13.8.

Tonight, I load up 4 rounds with 55.5 gr of R-26. 3 of 4 shots were at slightly less than 5/8" @ 100. Average velocity by labradar was 3206 fps, with an SD of 18.7. But here's where I'm bewildered. POI of the swift a-frame was 5" south of the same grain norma bullet, while leaving the muzzle a full hundred fps faster. Anybody able to explain to me how this is? Thanks in advance for theories.

Everyone here offers good advice. I know, for me, one of the first things I observed in my "personal bests" was to always support the rifle the same way/place for every shot, (which is a harmonics factor). This may not be applicable in your situation.

 

[RCMSTER]

Everyone here offers good advice. I know, for me, one of the first things I observed in my "personal bests" was to always support the rifle the same way/place for every shot, (which is a harmonics factor). This may not be applicable in your situation.

With a ruger no 1, one thing I've learned is the forearm must be resting on the front bag as close to the receiver as possible and better be in the same spot every time, or the groups will be spread out vertically.

 

[skipglo]

Hmmm? Interesting. Guess I'm learning something new on this little venture. Guess I just figured with both bullets being the same weight, and generally, but not exactly, the same flat base and profile, that the swift would have the same, or slightly higher POI.

You changed powder! Dramatic differences are noted using different powders and different weights of powder. This shouldn't be any surprise.

 

[skipglo]

So I was out shooting my Ruger no 1, in 25-06. Trying to find an acceptable load with 100 gr swift a-frames. I have a good load with norma 100 gr soft points and 56.5 gr of accurate mag-pro. Last 3 shot groups have averaged 3/4" @ 100, and the rifle is sighted in @ 2" high at that distance. Average velocity according to labradar is 3111 fps, with an SD of 13.8.

Tonight, I load up 4 rounds with 55.5 gr of R-26. 3 of 4 shots were at slightly less than 5/8" @ 100. Average velocity by labradar was 3206 fps, with an SD of 18.7. But here's where I'm bewildered. POI of the swift a-frame was 5" south of the same grain norma bullet, while leaving the muzzle a full hundred fps faster. Anybody able to explain to me how this is? Thanks in advance for theories.

One question....were you loading the same brass? Same manufacturer?

 

[redneckdan]

Barrel Harmonics

Example: in my 7mm-08 I shoot the 139gr SST sighted in at 200m. When I shoot the 120gr Ballistic Tip load the POI is 1" higher and 6" to the left, every shot every time. Then shoot a 139gr SST and dead center hit again.

Very similar results in my 6 creedmoor, the 100 gr hornady soft point hits 10 clicks left and 5 clicks up from the DTAC zero. It is repeatable across bulllet lot numbers.

 

[skipglo]

So I was out shooting my Ruger no 1, in 25-06. Trying to find an acceptable load with 100 gr swift a-frames. I have a good load with norma 100 gr soft points and 56.5 gr of accurate mag-pro. Last 3 shot groups have averaged 3/4" @ 100, and the rifle is sighted in @ 2" high at that distance. Average velocity according to labradar is 3111 fps, with an SD of 13.8.

Tonight, I load up 4 rounds with 55.5 gr of R-26. 3 of 4 shots were at slightly less than 5/8" @ 100. Average velocity by labradar was 3206 fps, with an SD of 18.7. But here's where I'm bewildered. POI of the swift a-frame was 5" south of the same grain norma bullet, while leaving the muzzle a full hundred fps faster. Anybody able to explain to me how this is? Thanks in advance for theories.

Here's an example of using two different types of casings! Almost like a mirror image and 2.5" difference....I found this one amazing! Welcome to the world of the Magic of Reloading

 

[Double Dropper]

Fore end...absolutely, bought a Savage Axis in 25-06 for next to nothing just to play with, never had a rifle in this caliber....nothing special for grouping but double checked the torque on the stock and added a Timney trigger to 2 lbs......under an inch all day but as said above, I need the bag to be close to the receiver or its spreads the group out. Favorite loads are 59 grains of Retumbo with 110 grain Accubonds and 56.5 grains of RL-25 under a 115 grain Ballistic Tip, under an inch all day with either load. WW brass CCI 250 primer.

 

[RCMSTER]

One question....were you loading the same brass? Same manufacturer?

Yep.

 

[Double Dropper]

Reloading Rule: everything changes everything.

 

[skipglo]

Yep.

Thanks....answers one of my questions for you....but different powder and different projectiles .. different results...varying B.C.s and aerodynamics and burn characteristics.... shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Warbird2006]

Barrel Harmonics

Example: in my 7mm-08 I shoot the 139gr SST sighted in at 200m. When I shoot the 120gr Ballistic Tip load the POI is 1" higher and 6" to the left, every shot every time. Then shoot a 139gr SST and dead center hit again.

You are correct, I shoot Silhouettes with 6.5x47 with 129gr. When I wanna shoot heavy 140gr bullets on rams, they go 3" left (on 100 yards).

 

[bdyal1972]

100 fps higher velocity

Impact goes DOWN

more aerodynamic bullet

Impact goes DOWN

Regarding ruger #1, there were a series of articles on how to modify the forearm for better REPEATABILITY 20 YEARS AGO... Google search????
IT REALLY worked on 223, 22-250, 30-06, 7mm mag and 45/70 for me.... been a really long time lol but was EXYREMELY SATISFYING helping abandoned pawn shop finds shoot BETTER than new!!!

not to mention a heavy barreled 30-06 or 223 with a 26" barrel, light bullets and slow powders run EXYREMELY FAST in little ,short , light,, trim, accurate packages with a leupold m8 6x scope!!!! Even with a brake they were loud but handy....

AND

Pointed like your finger!!!

hell on coyotes and does!!!


I have seen this A LOT in long range(100-200 yards) shooting 10mm, 44mag and 338 mag at 300-500yards...

I played with SEVERAL boss and que industries brakes in the 90s and it was amazing to me how I could tune group size seperatley from impact location vertically.

Once had 3 different makes of 210, 225 and 250 bullets in 2 different case makes shooting 3 different powders all shooting to same 300 yard zero in 3/4 moa groups....

Was really a weird learning experience getting there...

 

[RCMSTER]

You changed powder! Dramatic differences are noted using different powders and different weights of powder. This shouldn't be any surprise.

I understand that, but velocity is still velocity, no matter what powder is used, correct, or not? At any rate

Thanks....answers one of my questions for you....but different powder and different projectiles .. different results...varying B.C.s and aerodynamics and burn characteristics.... shouldn't be a surprise.

Ok. You lost me on the powder. B.C., aerodynamics, I understand that. But if powder A is propelling a bullet at 3111 fps across the chronograph, and powder B is propelling a bullet at 3200 fps, what does the powders have to do with bullet flight after it leaves the barrel, and is past the chronograph?

 

[RCMSTER]

100 fps higher velocity

Impact goes DOWN

more aerodynamic bullet

Impact goes DOWN

Regarding ruger #1, there were a series of articles on how to modify the forearm for better REPEATABILITY 20 YEARS AGO... Google search????
IT REALLY worked on 223, 22-250, 30-06, 7mm mag and 45/70 for me.... been a really long time lol but was EXYREMELY SATISFYING helping abandoned pawn shop finds shoot BETTER than new!!!

not to mention a heavy barreled 30-06 or 223 with a 26" barrel, light bullets and slow powders run EXYREMELY FAST in little ,short , light,, trim, accurate packages with a leupold m8 6x scope!!!! Even with a brake they were loud but handy....

AND

Pointed like your finger!!!

hell on coyotes and does!!!


I have seen this A LOT in long range(100-200 yards) shooting 10mm, 44mag and 338 mag at 300-500yards...

I played with SEVERAL boss and que industries brakes in the 90s and it was amazing to me how I could tune group size seperatley from impact location vertically.

Once had 3 different makes of 210, 225 and 250 bullets in 2 different case makes shooting 3 different powders all shooting to same 300 yard zero in 3/4 moa groups....

Was really a weird learning experience getting there...

Yep. I have that article printed out. Alot of great info regarding the Ruger no 1. Makes me wish I hadn't gotten rid of my 2 liberty model no 1's, after I read it.