Not a LRH gunsmith question

[Welderboy11972]

Hello fellow members, I had a accidental discharge issue with my 1911 yesterday. I know this is a LRH forum, but I have always gotten great responses from members here. Is there anyone very knowledgeable with the 1911?

I perchanced my 1911 in 2014. All internal MIM parts were replaced with a parts made of better quality in 2015. I have never had any safety issues with this handgun. I occasionally safety check it, just for peace of mind. Yesterday, I inserted a full mag, pulled the slide back, released the slide, and it was all over but the crying....

When the slide went into battery, it fired...in full auto mood...it emptied the 8 round mag faster then I could blink. Thankfully I was alone with no one around. Well...it ended up with me driving myself to the ER.

This was my carry gun. But now I'm not comfortable with it even being in the same room with anyone. It's now living in the safe. I put it in " time out" until I can get it apart and find the issue. I was hoping for any suggestions as to what to keep an eye out for. Thanks for any suggestions...

 

[sedancowboy]

I will take a stab at helping you. A few questions are in order. 1 what brand gun do you have? 2 what brand replacement parts did you use? Several things could have caused your malfunction. You did have a failure of the disconnector. The disconnector has to ride up into the notch in the bottom back of the slide and prevents the gun from firing until the trigger is reset and pulled again for each round. So if you weren't pulling the trigger at the time of the malfunction then the sear engagement also failed. The main spring has three functions one is to reset the trigger, two is to push the disconnector up and three is to push the grip safety back into the non firing position. So either the spring has failed like a broke finger or you have gotten something into the action that has gummed it up and caused your problem. Please don't think the 1911 platform is unsafe it has proven to be reliable for over 100 years. I hope your injuries were not serious. More info is needed and pictures are truly worth a thousand words.
Henry

 

[Welderboy11972]

I will take a stab at helping you. A few questions are in order. 1 what brand gun do you have? 2 what brand replacement parts did you use? Several things could have caused your malfunction. You did have a failure of the disconnector. The disconnector has to ride up into the notch in the bottom back of the slide and prevents the gun from firing until the trigger is reset and pulled again for each round. So if you weren't pulling the trigger at the time of the malfunction then the sear engagement also failed. The main spring has three functions one is to reset the trigger, two is to push the disconnector up and three is to push the grip safety back into the non firing position. So either the spring has failed like a broke finger or you have gotten something into the action that has gummed it up and caused your problem. Please don't think the 1911 platform is unsafe it has proven to be reliable for over 100 years. I hope your injuries were not serious. More info is needed and pictures are truly worth a thousand words.
Henry

I would rather not post the maker. I will say I payed close to $1,800 for it. The replacement parts are made of tool steel from a very well known 1911 manufacturer.

My son came by and helped me take a quick look at it...with the chamber empty...the hammer falls with the slide. It does not stay cockd. He beaver tail safety works. The thumb safety works. I did find that the half cock does not catch the hammer at half cock. I'm going to dissemble it next weekend, my son has more time to help me then and maybe the dr will take this cast off my hand Friday. I took 2 rounds to my fingers on my left hand. I'm guessing the 2nd round, when it AD, hit my pinky finger. 3rd round went through my middle finger and clipped the back of my ring finger. The recoil pushed back faster then I could move my cocking hand. (Left hand)

 

[sturner]

Dang if I know, had a colt mustang go full auto but you had to pull the trigger first

 

[entoptics]

Dang! Sorry to hear about the injuries. Glad it wasn't worse.

Disconnector is a likely culprit, but since it fired from dropping the slide, without your finger on the trigger, then it's also potentially the sear.

Here's page showing animations of the operations of a 1911.

This happened to me when I was about 10 years old. Uncle took me to local club match. I used his Colt Gold Cup, which he was quite proud of, and had done quite a bit of amateur gunsmithing on. I was one round into a mag shooting left handed against a "barricade" (pipe leg of the lean to) when it let loose. Happened so fast, everyone thought the stupid kid had just double tapped it, and sent one into the target, and one into the roof of the lean to. Shrapnel hit the guy next to me in the thumb, not injured beyond a little sliver of lead, but I'm sure it hurt.

When everyone calmed down and inspected things, they found two bullet holes in the target, one in the "barricade" pipe, and one in the roof. Course the slide was locked back on an empty mag too.

Went from being utterly terrified and humiliated to exonerated, and then it was my uncle who got the nasty stares. Upon close inspection, it appeared in his attempts to "smooth up" the trigger, he'd messed with the engagement surfaces on the disconnector and sear. My guess is they were initially fine, but after a few thousand rounds of wear, they failed.

After discovering the issue, I was like "Let me try that again!!! Now that I know it'll happen, I can handle it!!!" Of course the adults were like "Oh hell no!"...

 

[sedancowboy]

You have obviously had a failure of the disconnector and the sear to catch the hammer. The sear could be broken or for some reason not catching the hammer. Be careful to observe what is wrong as you disassemble the parts. It appears that the spring finger that pushes the disconnector up and the sear into the notch in the hammer is broken. Otherwise the sear would catch on the half cock. We won't know what is wrong until you take it apart. I will approach the elephant in the room. Why were your fingers in front of the muzzle?

 

[entoptics]

... I will approach the elephant in the room. Why were your fingers in front of the muzzle?

I'm guessing they weren't until the rodeo started. Imagine wracking the slide with an over the top grip. Left hand above the back of the gun. When it started rocking and rolling, the muzzle probably jumped upwards as it twisted, and swept across his fingers in the half a second or so it took to send a full mag down range. A 1911 will probably cycle at 850 rounds a minute, so that's 14 bullets a second...

 

[ShtrRdy]

Before I got involved with long range rifle shooting I spent A LOT of time with 1911's. sedancowboy gave us a lot of good information but missed saying that one of the Sear Spring fingers supplies a force to reset the Sear. I'm guessing there is something wrong in this area such that the Sear isn't able to catch the Hammer when it is pushed back. I suppose it's possible that the Hammer Hooks could be damaged.

Some other thoughts:
The Beaver Tail Safety blocks the back of the Trigger Bow.
The Thumb Safety blocks the Sear when the Sear is in the cocked position.
Sear Spring Jobs:
Finger 1 - Apply pressure to the Sear
Finger 2 - Return Disconnector and push Trigger forward
Finger 3 - Push back on Grip Safety

 

[sedancowboy]

I'm guessing they weren't until the rodeo started. Imagine wracking the slide with an over the top grip. Left hand above the back of the gun. When it started rocking and rolling, the muzzle probably jumped upwards as it twisted, and swept across his fingers in the half a second or so it took to send a full mag down range. A 1911 will probably cycle at 850 rounds a minute, so that's 14 bullets a second...

That is a very plausible explanation. There is a reason that we don't operate the slide in that manner. Instead we should grab the back of the slide with thumb and forefinger of the off hand and pull it straight toward you. I am not beating anyone up here. He has suffered enough. I just want us to learn from this incident.

 

[KyCarl]

Why did you feel like you needed to rework a midrange 1911? Most are very serviceable
the way they come after you shoot them in? And the warranty issue?
I carry a Ed Brown every day and it's a nice pistol.
I think I would start over and rethink it..
Glad it wasn't a whole lot worse and you get better soon!

 

[sedancowboy]

ShtrRdy you are exactly correct. Thank you for your clarification. As I said in post #6. Since the disconnector failed and the sear failed it appears to be a broken mainspring. But my assumptions may be wrong. We won't know until he tears it down.

 

[Nick@Straight-Jacket]

Sounds like the sear spring. I had this same thing happen. Replace, and retune.

 

[entoptics]

...There is a reason that we don't operate the slide in that manner. Instead we should grab the back of the slide with thumb and forefinger of the off hand and pull it straight toward you. I am not beating anyone up here. He has suffered enough. I just want us to learn from this incident.

Why did you feel like you needed to rework a midrange 1911? Most are very serviceable
the way they come after you shoot them in? And the warranty issue?...

Perhaps less of the subtle victim shaming?

@sedancowboy...There's a whole lot of reasons one should rack from over the top. One of the only reasons I can think of not to is your "Well, if my firearm catastrophically malfunctions that one in a million time it will shoot my fingers off"

If we treated every device with that sort of care, nobody would shoot or drive or cook. "Can't keep my face within 2 feet of the rifle, as there's a faint chance of a ka-boom." or "Can't drive my car faster than 10 mph, as there's a faint chance the brake lines will blow."

@KyCarl...Have you never installed any custom parts for your rifles? Do you reload? If so, glass houses and stones.

I don't know the true story, but according to the OP, it's a quality pistol with quality parts. We all trade in these goods every day, and none of us expect to be maimed as a result.

 

[Welderboy11972]

Thanks everyone....Entoptics is right...left hand over slide.
Yes...I'm glad it happened when it did. My son and my son in law, sometimes take one or two of my firearms out to shoot. It could of happened to one of them at a crowded range.

Thanks again guys. I will definitely keep everyone updated on what I find. It might be this weekend before I get to it.