Nosler Accubond Long Range problem

[gamehawker]

gamehawker

Speaking of Vortex Viper PSTs, I've been thinking of getting one for a while but could never find one to look through it to see if it was any good for my eyes (I don't see so good anymore). Anyway I finally found a FFP 6X24 the other day but much prefer 2nd focal plane. It is a very nice scope, great controls, etc. I noticed that the price has gone up from around $750 to $950 which I suppose means that they are selling all they can make. Since you have a bunch of them you must know where to buy them. Where would you recommend?

I would highly recommend getting them from CameraLand. They are also one of LRH site's sponsors. Doug or Neil are great to work with and I think if you mention you are a member of "Long Range Hunting" they will give you a 10% discount.

I think the Vortex PST 6-24x50 SFP are $750 and the Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP are $950.

Vortex - Camera Land NY

Vortex - Camera Land NY

 

[Engineering101]

gamehawker

Now I like 2nd focal plane even more. They are $750. I've never seen one in person and now I know why, at $750 they are a great deal. Thanks for the info.

 

[gamehawker]

gamehawker

Now I like 2nd focal plane even more. They are $750. I've never seen one in person and now I know why, at $750 they are a great deal. Thanks for the info.

Remember, I think you'll get a 10% discount on the $750 and free shipping.

I would call Doug or Neil @ CamerLand to see if they still honor that for LRH members.

 

[longarm]

Let me mention something that is back on the original subject of this thread. I was sitting here asking myself how a rifle that stacks bullet on top of bullet all day long when it is a 260 Rem can spray bullets like a shotgun with only a barrel change. The barrel could have a manufacturing defect but assume for the moment that the barrel does not have a defect.

After going over it, I realized I did change one other thing on the rifle. I had to change out the regular 260 bold head for a magnum bolt head. Furthermore, the magnum bolt head I got is not the same as their latest design. For some reason Savage changed their magnum bolt head to make it even thicker than the already thick original magnum bolt head. It occurred to me that they may have done it because the first one had accuracy issues. The difference in thickness is 0.496" for the original and now they make them 0.558".

Anyway, figuring that they had a reason for making this change, I took the bolt out of my 7mm WSM which uses the thicker magnum bolt head (and shoots pretty good) and stuck it in the 270 WSM and reset the headspace. I put the original bolt in a drawer because putting it in either of those rifles now would ruin your entire day. So the 270 WSM it is now sitting in the truck ready to head to the range with some ABLR handloads that should shoot good but don't.

So who wants to bet on the outcome? Kirby you ought to know the answer to this right off the top of your head. Will this solve the accuracy problems? I'm pretty sure the answer is no but I learned to eliminate all the possibilities when trying to solve a problem and this is one of the few remaining possibilities.

I bet if you're loading the 270 WSM with more than 60 grains H4831sc and the 150 Accubonds it won't shoot.

 

[winmag]

Anybody watch BOTW Today?
"After extensive testing, we load the ABLR in our custom ammo." BOTW.

Cool! Bet they ran em up past 3k too. No proof, just guessing here.

Liked the 30 / 210 that dumped a brown bear, & a Black bear. But the one recovered one from the Black bear was sweet lookin', Until I discovered there was only 80 something grains left after a 400yd shot thru 30" or so of bear. Not liking that too much. That's a Ton of weight to shed!
Wish I knew what they shot it with, at what velocity, & how many bones it hit.

 

[royinidaho]

Well fellas, back on the LRAB topic.

Went to a funeral today. It was a good on for a couple of reasons. First, it wasn't mine. Second, it was a very sweet lady who live a very productive 94 years.

Came home, changed duds and went to shootin'.

Having tinkeritus I moved the Base to Ogive distance, base to the Sinclair nut 27 cal hole minus the width of the nut out to touching the rifling. 3.173" in this case.

Strung a 3 shot group @ 300 open about 8" w/zero horizontal dispersion. When that happens it's me not paying attention to shooting position. Which is usually pushing too hard against the butt.

Went up a half grain of 7828ssc to 84.5 gr. Paid more attention to shooting position.

Group shrunk in half from the previous group. Load was too hot. A little more extraction resistance I like in a hunting rifle.

Seeing as how yesterdays shooting shooting revealed a node around 3500 FPS w/84 gr sec and a length of 3.153'' base to ogive. That portion of the ladder looked quite promising.

So why didn't I just start there? Duh. . .Tinkeritus!

So seating same as yesterday, 0.017" off rifling, same powder charge as yesterday, but prone off of solid bipod and DIY rear mono-pod gizmo I sent another group at the 300 yd target.

Group was exactly 1 MOA low and 0.291 MOA in size. That's better ho my previous best.

As I think about achieving an accurate load, zeroed @ 300 yards with 18 shots is pretty sweet. Plus most of the shots, 12 from yesterday, didn't contribute to load work except for the serendipity benefit of the latter ladder showing something.

I immediately contacted the IF Sportsmans and had Scott put their next to last box, didn't want to keep someone else from trying them, on the reserve shelf.

The 7/8" 300 yard group may be unique but if shoots 2X that I'm good with that.

Next week comes the expansion test and drop chart to 1200 or maybe even a mile.

Thanks winmag for the opportunity to wring these thing out.

If they continue to perform as they have so far, there isn't another bullet, all things considered, will compete with it.

The 169.5 WC will shoot along with it accuracy wise and become noticeably flatter beyond 1300 yards. There are only about 300 of them in existence. And I have 'em.

Bergers can't compete with their lower bc.

I'll be giving these things a go in Winny with Ailliant 4000 which pushes the 140 VLD to 3300.

The LRAB are seated with 0.017" jump.

 

[longarm]

Well fellas, back on the LRAB topic.

Went to a funeral today. It was a good on for a couple of reasons. First, it wasn't mine. Second, it was a very sweet lady who live a very productive 94 years.

Came home, changed duds and went to shootin'.

Having tinkeritus I moved the Base to Ogive distance, base to the Sinclair nut 27 cal hole minus the width of the nut out to touching the rifling. 3.173" in this case.

Strung a 3 shot group @ 300 open about 8" w/zero horizontal dispersion. When that happens it's me not paying attention to shooting position. Which is usually pushing too hard against the butt.

Went up a half grain of 7828ssc to 84.5 gr. Paid more attention to shooting position.

Group shrunk in half from the previous group. Load was too hot. A little more extraction resistance I like in a hunting rifle.

Seeing as how yesterdays shooting shooting revealed a node around 3500 FPS w/84 gr sec and a length of 3.153'' base to ogive. That portion of the ladder looked quite promising.

So why didn't I just start there? Duh. . .Tinkeritus!

So seating same as yesterday, 0.017" off rifling, same powder charge as yesterday, but prone off of solid bipod and DIY rear mono-pod gizmo I sent another group at the 300 yd target.

Group was exactly 1 MOA low and 0.291 MOA in size. That's better ho my previous best.

As I think about achieving an accurate load, zeroed @ 300 yards with 18 shots is pretty sweet. Plus most of the shots, 12 from yesterday, didn't contribute to load work except for the serendipity benefit of the latter ladder showing something.

I immediately contacted the IF Sportsmans and had Scott put their next to last box, didn't want to keep someone else from trying them, on the reserve shelf.

The 7/8" 300 yard group may be unique but if shoots 2X that I'm good with that.

Next week comes the expansion test and drop chart to 1200 or maybe even a mile.

Thanks winmag for the opportunity to wring these thing out.

If they continue to perform as they have so far, there isn't another bullet, all things considered, will compete with it.

The 169.5 WC will shoot along with it accuracy wise and become noticeably flatter beyond 1300 yards. There are only about 300 of them in existence. And I have 'em.

Bergers can't compete with their lower bc.

I'll be giving these things a go in Winny with Ailliant 4000 which pushes the 140 VLD to 3300.

The LRAB are seated with 0.017" jump.

I know the Bergers can't compete with bc with the 150LR Accubonds, but do the Bergers shoot tighter than the Accubonds? When I switched from the 140 Accubonds to the 150 Bergers, my best groups dropped by around 0.1 inch. I would just like to know if others have similar results or not.

 

[elkaholic]

Well fellas, back on the LRAB topic.

Went to a funeral today. It was a good on for a couple of reasons. First, it wasn't mine. Second, it was a very sweet lady who live a very productive 94 years.

Came home, changed duds and went to shootin'.

Having tinkeritus I moved the Base to Ogive distance, base to the Sinclair nut 27 cal hole minus the width of the nut out to touching the rifling. 3.173" in this case.

Strung a 3 shot group @ 300 open about 8" w/zero horizontal dispersion. When that happens it's me not paying attention to shooting position. Which is usually pushing too hard against the butt.

Went up a half grain of 7828ssc to 84.5 gr. Paid more attention to shooting position.

Group shrunk in half from the previous group. Load was too hot. A little more extraction resistance I like in a hunting rifle.

Seeing as how yesterdays shooting shooting revealed a node around 3500 FPS w/84 gr sec and a length of 3.153'' base to ogive. That portion of the ladder looked quite promising.

So why didn't I just start there? Duh. . .Tinkeritus!

So seating same as yesterday, 0.017" off rifling, same powder charge as yesterday, but prone off of solid bipod and DIY rear mono-pod gizmo I sent another group at the 300 yd target.

Group was exactly 1 MOA low and 0.291 MOA in size. That's better ho my previous best.

As I think about achieving an accurate load, zeroed @ 300 yards with 18 shots is pretty sweet. Plus most of the shots, 12 from yesterday, didn't contribute to load work except for the serendipity benefit of the latter ladder showing something.

I immediately contacted the IF Sportsmans and had Scott put their next to last box, didn't want to keep someone else from trying them, on the reserve shelf.

The 7/8" 300 yard group may be unique but if shoots 2X that I'm good with that.

Next week comes the expansion test and drop chart to 1200 or maybe even a mile.

Thanks winmag for the opportunity to wring these thing out.

If they continue to perform as they have so far, there isn't another bullet, all things considered, will compete with it.

The 169.5 WC will shoot along with it accuracy wise and become noticeably flatter beyond 1300 yards. There are only about 300 of them in existence. And I have 'em.

Bergers can't compete with their lower bc.

I'll be giving these things a go in Winny with Ailliant 4000 which pushes the 140 VLD to 3300.

The LRAB are seated with 0.017" jump.

Good job Roy! Sorry to hear about the lady friend! I hope to add some expansion data with the 5 bullets that I have. Probably a full bore @ around 3000', and then drop about 400' each round. I'll be shooting a short barreled .270W so probably can't top the 3000' much.....Rich

 

[winmag]

Well fellas, back on the LRAB topic.

Went to a funeral today. It was a good on for a couple of reasons. First, it wasn't mine. Second, it was a very sweet lady who live a very productive 94 years.

Came home, changed duds and went to shootin'.

Having tinkeritus I moved the Base to Ogive distance, base to the Sinclair nut 27 cal hole minus the width of the nut out to touching the rifling. 3.173" in this case.

Strung a 3 shot group @ 300 open about 8" w/zero horizontal dispersion. When that happens it's me not paying attention to shooting position. Which is usually pushing too hard against the butt.

Went up a half grain of 7828ssc to 84.5 gr. Paid more attention to shooting position.

Group shrunk in half from the previous group. Load was too hot. A little more extraction resistance I like in a hunting rifle.

Seeing as how yesterdays shooting shooting revealed a node around 3500 FPS w/84 gr sec and a length of 3.153'' base to ogive. That portion of the ladder looked quite promising.

So why didn't I just start there? Duh. . .Tinkeritus!

So seating same as yesterday, 0.017" off rifling, same powder charge as yesterday, but prone off of solid bipod and DIY rear mono-pod gizmo I sent another group at the 300 yd target.

Group was exactly 1 MOA low and 0.291 MOA in size. That's better ho my previous best.

As I think about achieving an accurate load, zeroed @ 300 yards with 18 shots is pretty sweet. Plus most of the shots, 12 from yesterday, didn't contribute to load work except for the serendipity benefit of the latter ladder showing something.

I immediately contacted the IF Sportsmans and had Scott put their next to last box, didn't want to keep someone else from trying them, on the reserve shelf.

The 7/8" 300 yard group may be unique but if shoots 2X that I'm good with that.

Next week comes the expansion test and drop chart to 1200 or maybe even a mile.

Thanks winmag for the opportunity to wring these thing out.

If they continue to perform as they have so far, there isn't another bullet, all things considered, will compete with it.

The 169.5 WC will shoot along with it accuracy wise and become noticeably flatter beyond 1300 yards. There are only about 300 of them in existence. And I have 'em.

Bergers can't compete with their lower bc.

I'll be giving these things a go in Winny with Ailliant 4000 which pushes the 140 VLD to 3300.

The LRAB are seated with 0.017" jump.

That's some great shooting Roy!
Thank you for the diligent testing effort. >.3MOA is outstanding, & at 3500ish FPS it's flat out amazing! & sighted in under 20 rounds all ttl! WOW!

Sounds like they may be a touch finicky for seating depth. I wonder.....

Engineering101,
How did you measure your COAL?
I'm wondering if base of brass to meplat measuring vs using an ogive comparator could've possibly been a factor?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Good work Roy!

I think the 170 EOL will definitely be competing when it gets here. Those and the Matrix will be getting the nod from me in the 270 Montana.

 

[MMERSS]

Thanks for the effort and look forward to some 1K results.

 

[royinidaho]

When I switched from the 140 Accubonds to the 150 Bergers, my best groups dropped by around 0.1 inch. I would just like to know if others have similar results or not.

From the limited data I have it would take way more shooting than I have barrel life for to determine the accuracy advantage of either one.

Berger 150s are capable of 0.3s as the LRAB seems to be also.

After sight in and dope development the only shot I am concerned with is the first one.

Also, anything under 0.5 MOA is gravy to me but does give one a little lee way at long distances.

 

[IdahoRedneck]

Well fellas, back on the LRAB topic.

Went to a funeral today. It was a good on for a couple of reasons. First, it wasn't mine. Second, it was a very sweet lady who live a very productive 94 years.

Came home, changed duds and went to shootin'.

Having tinkeritus I moved the Base to Ogive distance, base to the Sinclair nut 27 cal hole minus the width of the nut out to touching the rifling. 3.173" in this case.

Strung a 3 shot group @ 300 open about 8" w/zero horizontal dispersion. When that happens it's me not paying attention to shooting position. Which is usually pushing too hard against the butt.

Went up a half grain of 7828ssc to 84.5 gr. Paid more attention to shooting position.

Group shrunk in half from the previous group. Load was too hot. A little more extraction resistance I like in a hunting rifle.

Seeing as how yesterdays shooting shooting revealed a node around 3500 FPS w/84 gr sec and a length of 3.153'' base to ogive. That portion of the ladder looked quite promising.

So why didn't I just start there? Duh. . .Tinkeritus!

So seating same as yesterday, 0.017" off rifling, same powder charge as yesterday, but prone off of solid bipod and DIY rear mono-pod gizmo I sent another group at the 300 yd target.

Group was exactly 1 MOA low and 0.291 MOA in size. That's better ho my previous best.

As I think about achieving an accurate load, zeroed @ 300 yards with 18 shots is pretty sweet. Plus most of the shots, 12 from yesterday, didn't contribute to load work except for the serendipity benefit of the latter ladder showing something.

I immediately contacted the IF Sportsmans and had Scott put their next to last box, didn't want to keep someone else from trying them, on the reserve shelf.

The 7/8" 300 yard group may be unique but if shoots 2X that I'm good with that.

Next week comes the expansion test and drop chart to 1200 or maybe even a mile.

Thanks winmag for the opportunity to wring these thing out.

If they continue to perform as they have so far, there isn't another bullet, all things considered, will compete with it.

The 169.5 WC will shoot along with it accuracy wise and become noticeably flatter beyond 1300 yards. There are only about 300 of them in existence. And I have 'em.

Bergers can't compete with their lower bc.

I'll be giving these things a go in Winny with Ailliant 4000 which pushes the 140 VLD to 3300.

The LRAB are seated with 0.017" jump.

Thats some awesome results roy, thanks for doin it. Where do ya think these ABLRs will end up in your whinny, I plan to shoot them in my pre 64 model 70 26 inch barrel but am not sure ill see 3000, but will try
Gonna need to gey some 7828, and alliant 4000 I guess and we'll see what happens.

Cant wait to see yours and Richs expansion tests.gun)

 

[Fiftydriver]

Let me mention something that is back on the original subject of this thread. I was sitting here asking myself how a rifle that stacks bullet on top of bullet all day long when it is a 260 Rem can spray bullets like a shotgun with only a barrel change. The barrel could have a manufacturing defect but assume for the moment that the barrel does not have a defect.

After going over it, I realized I did change one other thing on the rifle. I had to change out the regular 260 bold head for a magnum bolt head. Furthermore, the magnum bolt head I got is not the same as their latest design. For some reason Savage changed their magnum bolt head to make it even thicker than the already thick original magnum bolt head. It occurred to me that they may have done it because the first one had accuracy issues. The difference in thickness is 0.496" for the original and now they make them 0.558".

Anyway, figuring that they had a reason for making this change, I took the bolt out of my 7mm WSM which uses the thicker magnum bolt head (and shoots pretty good) and stuck it in the 270 WSM and reset the headspace. I put the original bolt in a drawer because putting it in either of those rifles now would ruin your entire day. So the 270 WSM it is now sitting in the truck ready to head to the range with some ABLR handloads that should shoot good but don't.

So who wants to bet on the outcome? Kirby you ought to know the answer to this right off the top of your head. Will this solve the accuracy problems? I'm pretty sure the answer is no but I learned to eliminate all the possibilities when trying to solve a problem and this is one of the few remaining possibilities.

I have seen the exact reason why they increased the bolt lug diameter. Have seen several older receivers that had SERIOUS bolt lug set back into the receiver supports. This allows headspace to increase and at times, to dangerous amounts. This was due to some earlier Savage receivers have receiver steel that was a bit on the soft side and allowed the bolt lugs to set back into the receiver, even on Chrome Moly receivers when chambered in anything larger then standard belted magnum chamberings.

Believe that they changed the bolt lug simply because they knew of this problem and the larger surface area offered more support to the bolt lugs under the higher bolt thrust levels created by the WSM and RUM chamberings.

I can not say that the larger bolt head will solve your accuracy problems. Certainly will make your set up more rigid and more able to support the bolt thrust levels better but not sure that will make a huge difference in accuracy with velocities over 3000 fps.

That said, I have seen some rifles that had one bolt lug floating that shot extremely tight groups at low pressure but then as pressure increased enough to compress the bolt where the bolt lug was unsupported, you would start to see vertical stringing which is similar to what your seeing.

The Savage kind of has a floating bolt head though so this problem is generally not as dramatic as there is some built in allowance for this that the floating head will make up for.

Anyway, worth a try, see what happens. IF it helps, you know it was something in the bolt head. IF nothing changes, another thing to check off as NOT THE PROBLEM!!