North Dakota elk

[fishingstockwell]

For my own learning purposes, I'm curious why both rifles shot so high also. If I had to guess, it could be that he used the line of site value, instead of the TBR value that the range finders usually give. Even if he did use the TBR value, I believe that is the rifleman's rule, the correction value would still be off considerably if applied to a very steep angle.

 

[Treeslug]

Agreed 100 percent. He's from ND, zeroed in ND, and hunting in ND and both rifles shot very high. Any elevation change would be negligible in ND, it's pretty flat up there. I don't believe his misses were due to the rifle or scope. He was running around a lot, making lots of mistakes, excited and it was the last hours of a weeklong hunt, so I'll bet his heart was beating hard and probably breathing hard. I'm also guessing he doesn't shoot much at 700 yds. To calculate "dope" for 700 and then still shoot 30" plus high after dialing that dope (he had to hold under the elk and still hit the top of its back), tells me he didn't practice much, if at all, at those ranges. An inaccurate rifle shooting 2" 100 yd groups at 700 yds is 14" on a 24" brisket to back elk, but he consistently missed over 30 inches. 700 yds is not that far if you practice shooting like you suggested above.

I am sure I am too new to this forum to write this post, but I am going to take advantage of some of the criticisms suggested above and ask; would he have shot better if his parents had disciplined him by slapping him every time he got something wrong as a toddler? If he hadn't missed a meal or two as a teenager would he not have had those misses shooting at that cow elk at 700 yards. His misses were not due to his rifle or scope, in your opinion. Maybe it is because I am old and missed something in my formative years, but could you explain the true meaning of your statement: "An inaccurate rifle shooting 2" 100 yd groups at 700 yds is 14" on a 24" brisket to back elk, but he consistently missed over 30 inches." While I hate to show my ignorance of a sport I am new to, that sentence makes about as much sense to me as the fact that you know so much about why he missed his target, yet you were not there at the time. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me on your great abilities in these fields, or is this Monday morning quarterbacking standard on this form? I doubt anyone feels worse about his misses than Bait57 fells about his misses, but it sounds as if he did work like hell and deserves some praise for his efforts rather than condemnation for his initial failures to connect. Just sayin'.

 

[Bait57]

Congratulations. Nice story. Can't be sure from the photos, but did you hit the cow very high on the back? I can see a trail of blood down the side and looks like you almost missed it very high on the back?

I hit high behind the right shoulder and clipped the top of the right lung. The bullet exited I. The left side of the throat.

 

[Mallardhammer]

Very nice! What unit were you in? I filled my cow tag in E3 last week. Stuck to public ground and it was difficult to find the elk. Like VERY difficult lol I never thought my toughest pack out would be in ND congrats again!

 

[JustMe2]

Treeslug, since you asked, let me enlighten you then. A 1 MOA accurate rifle shoots 1" groups at 100 yds and a 2 MOA accurate rifle shoots 2" groups at 100 yds, etc., etc. The way this knowledge is applied is you multiple the MOA accuracy by the number of 100s in your yardage. So 2" at 100 yards equates to 14" at 700 yds (2 x 7 = 14). This means at 700 yds you can expect all of your bullets to impact within a 14" circle. Now lets apply this information to the elk. An elk measures 24 inches typically from the brisket to the back (more than 24" a for large bull elk). So, for a 2 MOA accurate rifle, you can reasonably expect the bullet to impact an elk in the kill zone if the shooter does his/her part (14" is smaller than 24"). Hope that helps you understand my abbreviated sentence. As you learn to shoot long distance, you'll be able to understand this concept better, just have patience and practice a lot.

 

[Barrelnut]

Great story and pics. Thanks for posting.
Enjoy your elk, you deserve it!

 

[Bait57]

Sounds like you had a great week! When you got to the elk at the end I couldn't slow myself down. Thanks for that. And glad you stuck with it and found the elk after it was dead. A couple of 'just wondering' types of questions based on mistakes I've made..... did you practice with those rifles at long range before hunting season? And one more tip based on my mistake.... if an elk goes down, reload right away as if you had missed. Get on it and if it flinches, shoot it again. Repeat! These are tough animals and just because they are down doesn't mean they are out. I hope you get to go again!!

Yes I have practiced with both of these rifles and didn't have any problems. I shoot as much as I can. I was gonna put another round in her but I thought the one was enough. That was a lesson learned.

 

[Bait57]

Agreed 100 percent. He's from ND, zeroed in ND, and hunting in ND and both rifles shot very high. Any elevation change would be negligible in ND, it's pretty flat up there. I don't believe his misses were due to the rifle or scope. He was running around a lot, making lots of mistakes, excited and it was the last hours of a weeklong hunt, so I'll bet his heart was beating hard and probably breathing hard. I'm also guessing he doesn't shoot much at 700 yds. To calculate "dope" for 700 and then still shoot 30" plus high after dialing that dope (he had to hold under the elk and still hit the top of its back), tells me he didn't practice much, if at all, at those ranges. An inaccurate rifle shooting 2" 100 yd groups at 700 yds is 14" on a 24" brisket to back elk, but he consistently missed over 30 inches. 700 yds is not that far if you practice shooting like you suggested above.

I have shot both of the guns at that range. I had to re zero one of the guns once I landed because I had problems with the base but it all seemed fine. Both of the guns shot less than .55moa at 100. Now I can say that my heart was going really fast but I trained for years in my previous career to shoot in high stress environments. Now that I'm back home I'm gonna get the guns back to the range and see if I can see what's going on. It could have been just me. But, I still got an elk

 

[Bait57]

Treeslug, since you asked, let me enlighten you then. A 1 MOA accurate rifle shoots 1" groups at 100 yds and a 2 MOA accurate rifle shoots 2" groups at 100 yds, etc., etc. The way this knowledge is applied is you multiple the MOA accuracy by the number of 100s in your yardage. So 2" at 100 yards equates to 14" at 700 yds (2 x 7 = 14). This means at 700 yds you can expect all of your bullets to impact within a 14" circle. Now lets apply this information to the elk. An elk measures 24 inches typically from the brisket to the back (more than 24" a for large bull elk). So, for a 2 MOA accurate rifle, you can reasonably expect the bullet to impact an elk in the kill zone if the shooter does his/her part (14" is smaller than 24"). Hope that helps you understand my abbreviated sentence. As you learn to shoot long distance, you'll be able to understand this concept better, just have patience and practice a lot.

This was a hard concept for me to learn when I first started shooting long range.

 

[Bait57]

Very nice! What unit were you in? I filled my cow tag in E3 last week. Stuck to public ground and it was difficult to find the elk. Like VERY difficult lol I never thought my toughest pack out would be in ND congrats again!

I was in E2. Hunted public most of time. Had permission on about 30,000 acres and found everything but elk.

 

[JustMe2]

I have shot both of the guns at that range. I had to re zero one of the guns once I landed because I had problems with the base but it all seemed fine. Both of the guns shot less than .55moa at 100. Now I can say that my heart was going really fast but I trained for years in my previous career to shoot in high stress environments. Now that I'm back home I'm gonna get the guns back to the range and see if I can see what's going on. It could have been just me. But, I still got an elk

Yes, that's the bottomline = you succeeded. It's strange that both rifles shot excessively high at 700 yds. Maybe your dope was bad for some reason even though you said you checked it. Based on the dope being accurate and it was inside both your rifles' 0.55 MOA capabilities, I was speculating that with all the excitement, etc., etc. that could be the cause. I guess we'll know more after your next range session and you post your conclusions.

 

[Bait57]

Something that was just brought to my attention. My rifles were zeroed at 900ft in elevation but I shot the elk at 3000ft. I don't know how much difference that makes.

Either way, at the end of the day, I was super lucky to not only draw a tag but harvest and elk for the first time I've ever hunted for one. I am hooked on it now.

I know and plan on shooting more at long longer ranges. I have a Mule deer hunt next month.

 

[338weatherby]

Great story and congrats. I just got back from Utah after 7 days and saw one cow and had a bull tag. Put miles and miles on and spiked out 4 miles to get away. Saw lots of bull moose but no elk. I'm glad you filled your tag!

 

[Treeslug]

This was a hard concept for me to learn when I first started shooting long range.

Wow, all that talk about backs and briskets reminded me more of a Texas bar-b-que. The sentence does make sense to me now, but without a reference to MOA stuffed into the sentence, I missed the meaning completely. I do know what MOA is, but a lot of these terms are foreign to my old, rapidly receding brain. I will probably never shoot long-range shots like you guys on this forum post about. I have been shooting hogs with my pistols for the last few years and I find it challenging. I just bought a Springfield Armory 1911 10mm, 6-inch longslide with a Trijicon RMR red dot sight because my eyes are going quickly, too. On Thursday I will be heading to the country to hopefully shoot a hog or two for sausage. I will sight it in in the morning and hunt in the evening. MOA will probably be 2 inches at fifty yards with my handloads. I have another 10mm with a shorter bbl, and that is about what I usually shoot. At 50 to 100 yards I hope to keep it above the brisket and below the back (bone) and just behind the front shoulder. I never bother with a camera just for pictures of feral hogs, but maybe this time I will. Thanks for the explanation. I love this stuff, even if I never take it up.