Next step help

[JD250]

I wouldn't recommend this for a new reloader and he didn't state if this is a hunting rifle. If it's a hunting rifle I prefer to start .015 off as Berger recommends for hunting rifles. Start at .015 and move back in .025 increments as sedancowboy recommends. Berger has recommendations about seating on the website.
The 83.3 load looks consistent and I would work with seating from there. Just my .02 worth of free advice.

Thank you for the input and yes this will be a hunting rifle. From what I've gathered from everyone on here it's time to start messing with seating depth. What makes you think the 83.3 is the place to start? What is causing my 83.5 and .4 throw that one bullet if it's not me? Why wouldn't I want to start with those? Also I'm showing no signs of pressure yet for what that's worth… thanks for everyone's help on here by the way.

 

[birddog 68]

Thank you for the input and yes this will be a hunting rifle. From what I've gathered from everyone on here it's time to start messing with seating depth. What makes you think the 83.3 is the place to start? What is causing my 83.5 and .4 throw that one bullet if it's not me? Why wouldn't I want to start with those? Also I'm showing no signs of pressure yet for what that's worth… thanks for everyone's help on here by the way.

It looks like in your two outings the 83.3 was consistent in size and I don't think the little extra powder caused the 1 to fly out of the other groups. At your experience level and that large of a case I would do like sedancowboy said in post #13 and go in. .5 grain increments unless you are close to max.
You will find everyone has a way to do load work ups and over time you will find what works best for you. I prefer to do it as sedancowboy explains and it works for me. Be consistent loading and shooting and you will get results. And be safe!

 

[ShtrRdy]

On the last target I find it interesting that 6 of the 15 shots are very close to each other at the top corner of the small diamond. I'm not sure what this is telling us. Could seating depth adjustment pull in the outlying holes?

 

[JD250]

On the last target I find it interesting that 6 of the 15 shots are very close to each other at the top corner of the small diamond. I'm not sure what this is telling us. Could seating depth adjustment pull in the outlying holes?

It seems like on most all my first shots there basically for the lack of better terms a bullseye then it seems to wander from there with the exception of my 83.5 that was high but the windage was still just about perfect. And I'll mention I'm shooting off bags right now and am not the greatest bench shooter but can usually hold my own. I did order a lead sled that will be here Friday I'm tempted to load up 83.4 and 83.5 and see what they do off the lead sled maybe I pulled it or something and I was recommended to use a chrono on that group to see if there was a big velocity change which I though was some pretty solid advice because why would the gun shoot two in one hole then one an inch out? If I have a big velocity changes o could see it if not in theory it would be the shooter correct?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I use to have a lead sled and couldn't shoot any better with it.

 

[DUCKMAN11]

Yes, at what point does that come into play?

Chrono comes in at about shot 10. And I say shot #10 because I've seen barrels speed up from 40 rounds to 140 rounds. Find a node where your velocity doesn't change much from let's say 83gr to 83.6gr as an example. Dial in one variable at a time!! DIAL IN ONE VARIABLE AT A TIME!! ONLY DIAL IN ONE VARIABLE AT A TIME!!

I get my powder dialed in first. Your velocity in August is going to be different than in December and It doesn't matter what powder you are using. So if you find max pressure in December you could be WAAAAY over pressure in August. As a generalization Higher Temps= higher pressure. Luckily you are not going to be dealing with that in this situation.

Find a good wide velocity node under max pressure and stay in that area for powder charge. Then dial in from there with your group size. Find your "range/node" then work from 83gr to 83.6gr in .2gr increments. Finding the node and optimal powder charge "can be" found in 20 rounds. Once I find a good charge I then shoot a 5 shot group to verify. In a case as large as 30noz .1gr of powder isn't going to change things as much as it would in a 223.

In my opinion..... a good load is one that I can throw together and shoot sub moa or better. A bad load is one where I have to count kernels of powder and be under 60°f and have between .020" and .023" of jump to shoot one hole groups. I'm not shooting 100yd benchrest I'm shooting hogs using a fence post as a rest...but thats me. I want a pretty broad and forgiving combo.

What C.B.T.O. are you using for finding max powder charge? If you a jamming bullets now you could be leaving velocity on the table by hitting pressure early.

 

[sedancowboy]

Do not use lead sled they will wreak your gun and scope or both. The heavier the recoil the worse the damage. We will get you and your gun shooting be patient. This will take a little time.

 

[JD250]

Do not use lead sled they will wreak your gun and scope or both. The heavier the recoil the worse the damage. We will get you and your gun shooting be patient. This will take a little time.

Really? I had no idea… is it because it's more ridged than letting my shoulder take the recoil?

 

[Rhett Crider]

Really? I had no idea… is it because it's more ridged than letting my shoulder take the recoil?

You need free recoil for at least a second to let the bullet escape the barrel w/o the rifle/barrel jump. That's why muzzle brakes and suppressors were developed. For benchrest, notice the flat/flatter bottom on the butt stock vs a sporter stock. This is designed so the rifles free recoil slides straight back instead of downward (sporter stock) on the rear bag. It doesn't take much drop in those mili-seconds to change POI at longer distances significantly depending on the accuracy you are trying to attain. In hunting situations, sporter stocks are fine since the rifle is mostly supported on the fore stock via fence post, tree limb, bipod, or tripod and your shoulder supports the butt stock w/ free recoil. The sled is a bad design as it causes stress against your action screws(only 2 of them and they are small diameter) and recoil lug, not to mention your scope and mounts.

 

[Rflshootr]

Fliers are the load being out of tune. If it were me, I'd start with the 82 or 82.3 grain load and work the seating depth. Don't let the 2 in 1 hole and a flier fool you. The load is out of tune. Remember, you want round groups. Not vertical, not horizontal, and definitely not diagonal. Round groups typically measure the smallest and diagonal the largest. Once you establish a good seating depth, then you can revisit the powder charge if needed. when you are in the powder node, point of impact will stay the same for a powder weight range. Something else to remember, accuracy trumps velocity. No animal in the world knows the difference of a bullet that is 50-100 fps slower or faster. Accuracy is what everyone is chasing. IMHO

 

[fnlights]

Do not use lead sled they will wreak your gun and scope or both. The heavier the recoil the worse the damage. We will get you and your gun shooting be patient. This will take a little time.

100% agree with this. I use to do load development with a lead sled until my action screws and scope mounts came loose with my braked 300WM. They are definitely hard on a gun and the scope. While I think they might be good for new shooters or beginners just to get them behind a gun, I am done using them lol.

 

[Tree Farmer]

Fliers are the load being out of tune. If it were me, I'd start with the 82 or 82.3 grain load and work the seating depth. Don't let the 2 in 1 hole and a flier fool you. The load is out of tune. Remember, you want round groups. Not vertical, not horizontal, and definitely not diagonal. Round groups typically measure the smallest and diagonal the largest. Once you establish a good seating depth, then you can revisit the powder charge if needed. when you are in the powder node, point of impact will stay the same for a powder weight range. Something else to remember, accuracy trumps velocity. No animal in the world knows the difference of a bullet that is 50-100 fps slower or faster. Accuracy is what everyone is chasing. IMHO

This is exactly what I would do, as well. If seating depth is wrong, all your groups will reflect the wrong seating depth. 82.3 grns is where you want to start your seating depth test.

 

[Dmagna]

To me you are wasting components if you are not shooting with a chrono, you could have an ES of 50-100 and not see inconsistencies at 100 yards. The chrono just makes it easy to tell which powder load is the most consistent, then you can adjust seating depth. It seems you have a nice rifle and are just spinning in the mud, you need data to be successful. I have had 1/2 moa groups at 100 yards open to 3 moa because of ****** consistency in powder loads at 500 yards. You need to have a consistent ES and SD in your powder to make sure it will stay consistent at distance.

 

[Tree Farmer]

Sooner or later you will need to find the optimum seating depth, so I'd opt for sooner. I believe this is critical before going too far down the rabbit hole. In my 280 AI, a jump of .020 produced a 3 shot group of 1.42 @ 100 yds. A jump of .060 grouped .210. Seating depth is a variable that needs to be eliminated. It may or may not make a difference in your rifle, but it could and you need to know.