I'm just making a goof. The cartridge sounds perfect for use out here in Region 7.
NEW WILDCAT REPORT: 25 Stalker
- Thread starter Fiftydriver
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
I'm just making a goof. The cartridge sounds perfect for use out here in Region 7.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The 131 blackjacks would be a varmint bullet at the velocity levels the 25 Stalker can produce. Its specifically designed for a 25 creedmore class velocity. 25-06 should be fine, a 257 wby would seriously stress it.
Production 25 Stalker rifles will likely have a 7 twist barrel for use specifically for the 128 gr. Hammer Hunter. I have tested that bullet on several big deer in the past with great results but even at the speed of the 25 Stalker, needs the 7 twist for proper terminal performance.
They will shoot accurately with less rpms but when they penetrate a big game animal, they need the rpms to stay on point and penetrate straight. I tested them in my old 257 Allen Magnum on a couple big canadian whitetails and they worked great.
Watch this video, at 0:38 you will see a 128 gr. Hammer do its work on the above whitetail from 450 yards.
Loaded them to 3500 fps in a 26" barrel. Pretty mild load as i was not sure how they would handle the speed terminally. Would think the 25 Stalker would get them up to 3700 fps easy enough. That is the plan for production 25 Stalkers. They could still use the accubond or barnes bullets also.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Ya i know!! The old 7mm Allen Mag is also a monster for wide open windy places. Really far superior to the 25 Stalker at ranges past 500 yards. A 180 gr. Berger at 3400 fps is quite impressive in the wind. For 500 and under though, the 25 Stalker is a lazer beam!!
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
Whew. That high neck shot was lights out for that buck. Wish I could afford to hunt there! Brutes.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
There is a reason i take a new wildcat and rifle each year for the hunt for field testing and R&D...
jjmp
Well-Known Member
Great to see you Posting ,another great Cartridge !!!, good luck on your hunt , if you ever need a gun bearer I could make myself available 
Thescandinavian
Well-Known Member
Tried to find this large bullets, but not successful.any link to 140grain +?
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Chinchaga bullets. Dont know if they even have a web site. I know the 140s were custom made for the customer.
Don A Parsons
Well-Known Member
Awesome build, I'll be tagging this thread fore sure FD...
I'm using a 6.5/06 for hunting this season in North West Canada this fall,,, Elk and Moose draws along with the Deer...
Good luck on your hunt as well,,, good times fore sure
Cheers from the North
I'm using a 6.5/06 for hunting this season in North West Canada this fall,,, Elk and Moose draws along with the Deer...
Good luck on your hunt as well,,, good times fore sure
Cheers from the North
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Update on this monster 25 caliber wildcat. As many of you know, i always report the good and the bad of my testing. Never been one to hide anything. The reason for that is simply full transparency. With these hyper performance rounds there are often some issues to work through. They are not like loading a puny 6.5 creedmore....
Anyway, started testing this rifle with the 110 gr. Accubond with a muzzle velocity of 3914 fps average. First few shots were not good at 100 yards, running around 2-3 moa. Then as the barrel warmed, i was unable to get a bullet on my 20" square target.....
I was a bit worried about this. The rifles barrel is a benchmark 3 groove and all three groove barrels i have used had very wide lands. Now, why the accubonds failed, not sure yet, did not take the time to get an exact reason. Kind of in a rush here to get ready for the hunt. My theory is pretty simple, near 4000 fps is faster then the bullet can support the tip of the bullet and when fired, the inertia of the tip drives it into the cavity of the bullet and starts to expand the bullet in flight.
Reason i think this is because this has been a serious problem with the LR version of the accubond but in that design, it happens at velocities in the +3100 to +3300 fps depending on caliber of bullet.
So, for now, 110 gr. Accubonds are a dead stick with this barrel. Now production rifles will have one of two barrels, for bullets of 115 grain and under, a bartlein 5r 9 twist. Then a bartlein 5r 7 twist For the 128 gr. Hammer Hunter bullet.
Anyway, getting this rifle usable......
Had some 115 gr. Barnes TSX and some 100 gr. Barnes TTSX on the shelf so i gave them a try. The 115 gr. TSX was able to be driven to 3880 fps with top loads using Ramshot LRT. 100 yard groups were much better and consistent. For three different three shot groups, the 115 gr. Averaged right around 3/4 moa. Acceptable at close range at these muzzle velocities. However the BC really is very low.
The 100 gr. TTSX has a slightly higher BC and should offer more velocity, not that this is needed.....
100.0 gr of LRT was the starting point as thats where i stopped with the 115 gr.
100.0 gr.........3920 fps
101.0 gr.........3977 fps
102.0 gr.........4041 fps
103.0 gr.........4135 fps
At 103.0 gr i reached 99-100% load density. Seeing the velocity jump from 102 to 103, its clear we are reaching top working pressures. I DO NOT like load densities that produce compressed loads. Gun powder that sits in a compressed state for an extended period of time can tend to have the powder stick together and cause pressure spikes. This is often not seen in lesser rounds but when dealing with very low expansion ratio designs, it does become an issue and at times, can be a serious issue.
As such, i never use compressed loads with my wildcats.
Was able to do a quick accuracy test at 100 yards and shot two 3 ahot groups that measured 0.488" and 0.623" ctc. Loaded up some test ammo and will be doing long range accuracy testing and drop chart testing.
One thing to keep in mind that the 25 Stalker is designed for the specific goal of being a 700-800 yard max range deer rifle chambering with laser flat trajectory. As mentioned previously, if you want longer range or more authority on heavier game, i have a host of options for those needs. The 25 Stalker is a very specialized weapon system.
So lets see what it will do. With a 300 yard zero. The mid range trajectory never gets above 2.0" above line of sight.
At 400 yards its only 1.2 moa low and still clipping along at 3150 fps and has nearly 2200 ft/lbs of retained energy.
At 600 yards, its only 4.1 moa low and has over 2700 fps and over 1600 ft/lbs.
At 800 yards, its 7.8 moa low with 2330 fps and 1200 ft/lbs of energy at its max design range.
Add to that, the felt recoil of this rifle which has a 7.2 lb bare rifle weight is NOTHING using my small Painkiller muzzle brake. It is literally less then my daughters 243 Win rifle also fitted with a PK muzzle brake. NOTHING is the only description i can give that seems accurate.
Next couple days will be running her out from 300-800 yards tweaking drop chart and seeing what it will do at longer ranges. Then headed to northern Sask. canada to see what it does in real life on a big bodied northern whitetail.
Anyway, started testing this rifle with the 110 gr. Accubond with a muzzle velocity of 3914 fps average. First few shots were not good at 100 yards, running around 2-3 moa. Then as the barrel warmed, i was unable to get a bullet on my 20" square target.....
I was a bit worried about this. The rifles barrel is a benchmark 3 groove and all three groove barrels i have used had very wide lands. Now, why the accubonds failed, not sure yet, did not take the time to get an exact reason. Kind of in a rush here to get ready for the hunt. My theory is pretty simple, near 4000 fps is faster then the bullet can support the tip of the bullet and when fired, the inertia of the tip drives it into the cavity of the bullet and starts to expand the bullet in flight.
Reason i think this is because this has been a serious problem with the LR version of the accubond but in that design, it happens at velocities in the +3100 to +3300 fps depending on caliber of bullet.
So, for now, 110 gr. Accubonds are a dead stick with this barrel. Now production rifles will have one of two barrels, for bullets of 115 grain and under, a bartlein 5r 9 twist. Then a bartlein 5r 7 twist For the 128 gr. Hammer Hunter bullet.
Anyway, getting this rifle usable......
Had some 115 gr. Barnes TSX and some 100 gr. Barnes TTSX on the shelf so i gave them a try. The 115 gr. TSX was able to be driven to 3880 fps with top loads using Ramshot LRT. 100 yard groups were much better and consistent. For three different three shot groups, the 115 gr. Averaged right around 3/4 moa. Acceptable at close range at these muzzle velocities. However the BC really is very low.
The 100 gr. TTSX has a slightly higher BC and should offer more velocity, not that this is needed.....
100.0 gr of LRT was the starting point as thats where i stopped with the 115 gr.
100.0 gr.........3920 fps
101.0 gr.........3977 fps
102.0 gr.........4041 fps
103.0 gr.........4135 fps
At 103.0 gr i reached 99-100% load density. Seeing the velocity jump from 102 to 103, its clear we are reaching top working pressures. I DO NOT like load densities that produce compressed loads. Gun powder that sits in a compressed state for an extended period of time can tend to have the powder stick together and cause pressure spikes. This is often not seen in lesser rounds but when dealing with very low expansion ratio designs, it does become an issue and at times, can be a serious issue.
As such, i never use compressed loads with my wildcats.
Was able to do a quick accuracy test at 100 yards and shot two 3 ahot groups that measured 0.488" and 0.623" ctc. Loaded up some test ammo and will be doing long range accuracy testing and drop chart testing.
One thing to keep in mind that the 25 Stalker is designed for the specific goal of being a 700-800 yard max range deer rifle chambering with laser flat trajectory. As mentioned previously, if you want longer range or more authority on heavier game, i have a host of options for those needs. The 25 Stalker is a very specialized weapon system.
So lets see what it will do. With a 300 yard zero. The mid range trajectory never gets above 2.0" above line of sight.
At 400 yards its only 1.2 moa low and still clipping along at 3150 fps and has nearly 2200 ft/lbs of retained energy.
At 600 yards, its only 4.1 moa low and has over 2700 fps and over 1600 ft/lbs.
At 800 yards, its 7.8 moa low with 2330 fps and 1200 ft/lbs of energy at its max design range.
Add to that, the felt recoil of this rifle which has a 7.2 lb bare rifle weight is NOTHING using my small Painkiller muzzle brake. It is literally less then my daughters 243 Win rifle also fitted with a PK muzzle brake. NOTHING is the only description i can give that seems accurate.
Next couple days will be running her out from 300-800 yards tweaking drop chart and seeing what it will do at longer ranges. Then headed to northern Sask. canada to see what it does in real life on a big bodied northern whitetail.
snox801
Well-Known Member
Kirby you had me till you said the 6.5 creed is whimsy. Come on we all know that it has less recoil than a .223 and hits as had as the ..375 AM. And has less drop than a laser.
You are ruining your credibility here.
You are ruining your credibility here.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The creed is a magical beast, at least until you compare it to anything else.....
In all honesty, the 6mm version is a far better design for long range shooting when loaded with 105-115 gr projos. At leaat in my humble opinion but i will admit, i dont read the gun rag advertisements for the creedmore, just look at real world performance.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Course the 6mm creedmore is nothing more then the old 6mm-250 with a slight improve on the case shoulder. To listen to the hype though......
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Windy as heck at home this morning but calm at the shop so set up to do a bit better zero at 100 yards with the new 25 Stalker and its load of the 100 gr. Barnes TTSX loaded to 4135 fps with 103.0 gr. Ramshot LRT.
After seeing what the 110 Accubond was doing, still a bit worried about this combo.
Turns out, this rifle really likes the 100 gr. TTSX at this speed!!
Seeing this, i took 1.25 moa out of the vertical and set the zero stop and zeroed the turrets. Headed up to my long range shooting area.
Started right out at 845 yards. Wind was terrible, 12-20 mph constantly varying wind from 3:00 to 5:00 position. Horrible.
Just confirming drops anyway. At 845, impacts were 1 moa high. Moved to 615 yards and same 1 moa high. Tweaked the drop chart to bring it into focus with the actual trajectory and then tested at 300, 415, 450, 600 and 710.
All distances drops were dead on the money except 710 where it was still impacting around 3/4 moa higher then it should have been. Seeing all the other distances being dead on for drop, i believe the issue at 710 yard is there was some updrafts with the wind racing up the side wall of the valley i was shooting at.
Windage was an issue. When consistent, easily under 1/2 moa for the pair of shots i took at each range. Even in worst conditions for wind though, it still held 1 moa windage variation at most and again, it was windier today they i would ever take a shot at big game in at ranges past 600 yards.
Great first test. Hoping the wind will lay down for tomorrow morning and i can get one more range session to verify drops and fine tune if needed. Right now, totally confident out to 600 yards no problem.
After seeing what the 110 Accubond was doing, still a bit worried about this combo.
Turns out, this rifle really likes the 100 gr. TTSX at this speed!!
Seeing this, i took 1.25 moa out of the vertical and set the zero stop and zeroed the turrets. Headed up to my long range shooting area.
Started right out at 845 yards. Wind was terrible, 12-20 mph constantly varying wind from 3:00 to 5:00 position. Horrible.
Just confirming drops anyway. At 845, impacts were 1 moa high. Moved to 615 yards and same 1 moa high. Tweaked the drop chart to bring it into focus with the actual trajectory and then tested at 300, 415, 450, 600 and 710.
All distances drops were dead on the money except 710 where it was still impacting around 3/4 moa higher then it should have been. Seeing all the other distances being dead on for drop, i believe the issue at 710 yard is there was some updrafts with the wind racing up the side wall of the valley i was shooting at.
Windage was an issue. When consistent, easily under 1/2 moa for the pair of shots i took at each range. Even in worst conditions for wind though, it still held 1 moa windage variation at most and again, it was windier today they i would ever take a shot at big game in at ranges past 600 yards.
Great first test. Hoping the wind will lay down for tomorrow morning and i can get one more range session to verify drops and fine tune if needed. Right now, totally confident out to 600 yards no problem.
